Originally Posted by barrettO

I agree completely. I just don't think it comes from Dana White. Maybe I am wrong.

I personally liked Elite XC's 2nd and 3rd CBS offering. Thought they were far more entertaining than our most recent UFC. But it doesn't change the fact that the UFC has cornered the market on the MMA Brand name. Even casual fans assume that other organizations are inferior product (even though they tuned in to watch Kimbo in record numbers).

I truly believe this is what Dana has going for him. He is not a superior business man, he doesn't know the fight game better, he is certainly not more professional. He is just lucky enough to have had the UFC arrive first on the scene. I really think that is all that sets him apart. Its like he is playing poker with the big stack. He doesn't have to be better, the odds are already on his side.

The UFC got here first, so tight now on an inescapable level, anyone who starts a new organization is viewed as the minor leagues just like if someone tried to compete with the NFL.

I agree with most of this.

However, I don't think casual fans thought Elite was minor league. I think they thought it was the same, or on the same level as the UFC. It's possible that a sizeable portion of that same group had never seen the UFC, especially if they don't have cable. Also, a lot of casual or 1st time watchers were very interested in Kimbo. Even the UFC didn't have anyone that generated the same buzz as Kimbo.

I agree that JB is not an especially clever businessman, but the guy knows how to be ruthless, which I suppose some would say is clever. He has c*ck-blocked just about every org that's popped up in the states with his connections and threats. He definitely doesn't know the fight game itself in any superior way, either. I learned long ago to bet against the guy he's raving about. It's like the kiss of death. There's no doubt that having the UFC brand is huge, but let's not forget how lucky he was in the first place to have the Fertittas as his chums. That's a huge component in this whole thing. Not only did they have the revenue streams, they were also extremely well connected.

I don't think it's impossible for a rival to step up and stick around for a while. With better management and a charismatic, knowledgeable frontman, I think it could happen within a few years. It would take a huge setback by the UFC for anyone to supplant them as the #1 org, though. No doubt about that.

Originally Posted by barrettO

But I still don't think people saw Elite as the UFC's equal. Every non-mma person I spoke to said had two things to say to me, "I want to watch Kimbo," and "how good is he? could he hand with the UFC guys?" Even people who thought he was great used the UFC as the standard to measure him against. They ARE mma to casual fans. most think the sport is called UFC and don't know what MMA even is.

People probably asked you those questions because they had you as a resource and viewed you as someone with MMA knowledge. I don't know that other fans who did not have that type of resource would go around asking the same questions or even have them in the first place. They'd make the call on their own based on the hype and the fact that the first couple shows on free TV had pretty exciting standup matches with evenly matched guys. Besides the fact that some of the guys actually are UFC caliber, non-MMA fans without an MMA fan to ask wouldn't necessarily be able to guage the skill level of Elite guys against UFC guys. And those who don't understand or appreciate groundwork, clinches against the cage, etc., might even view the Elite stuff as better than some of the UFC stuff because all "some of those UFC guys do is hug and lay on top of each other." Then, for the fights where one guy went out and destroyed the other one, they again wouldn't necessarily be able to pass judgement on the skill level of either guy and simply think, "Damn that guy's a beast."

Plus, I encountered the opposite of what you did - yes, they may have compared to the UFC but did not see Elite as minor league - more like American League vs National League rather than Major League vs minor league. But, I imagine our own experiences with people represent too small of a sample to really say what the average, non-MMA fan thought.

I think (thought) of Elite more like college, D1 vs D2 or D3 - The top guys have roughly the same level of talent, but D1 (UFC) has much more depth than the others.