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Thread: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

  1. #10

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimach View Post
    So are you saying that Brock isnt an entry level fighter?
    Absolutely. Besides number of fights tell what makes him entry level. Not popularity as Adolf mentioned. Not MMA ability or potential. And he sure isn't being given entry level opponents.

    For you to compare Brock with a guy on the bottom of the undercard is absurd. Every promotion in the world does the same thing with a high-profile/high-potential new fighter (roger gracie in sengoku recently, gardner in pride, etc...). Heck Couture was a headliner in his 2nd show against Belfort. Or look at the NFL. They don't give the #1 pick and the 7th round guy the same money because they are both "0-0". The bottom line is you get what you can earn.

    But these guys are not the issue here. Brock and guys who CAN demand a salary are fine (like in all orgs, all sports, and all career fields). The problem is one that should be dealt with by putting in a "minimum salary" like other sports. Or even a scaled minimum like the NFL that goes up according to how many years you've been around.

    I agree with you the lower guys should be paid more, but saying Brock is "entry level" just like an undercard fighter is ridiculous.

  2. #11

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by barrettO View Post
    Absolutely. Besides number of fights tell what makes him entry level. Not popularity as Adolf mentioned. Not MMA ability or potential. And he sure isn't being given entry level opponents.

    For you to compare Brock with a guy on the bottom of the undercard is absurd. Every promotion in the world does the same thing with a high-profile/high-potential new fighter (roger gracie in sengoku recently, gardner in pride, etc...). Heck Couture was a headliner in his 2nd show against Belfort. Or look at the NFL. They don't give the #1 pick and the 7th round guy the same money because they are both "0-0". The bottom line is you get what you can earn.

    But these guys are not the issue here. Brock and guys who CAN demand a salary are fine (like in all orgs, all sports, and all career fields). The problem is one that should be dealt with by putting in a "minimum salary" like other sports. Or even a scaled minimum like the NFL that goes up according to how many years you've been around.

    I agree with you the lower guys should be paid more, but saying Brock is "entry level" just like an undercard fighter is ridiculous.
    Brock lacks in everything except name recognition and if that is a basis for paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars, then fine but then is there really a need to continue paying an under card fighter low amounts? and that goes for both orgs, if you can justify paying that kind of money to a newb with a name then its justified paying more to fighters as a whole.

    Fact of the matter is, Brock is like a undercard fighter, who is able to demand a high salary because of his name, not what he can or has done.
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  3. #12

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimach View Post
    Brock lacks in everything except name recognition and if that is a basis for paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars, then fine but then is there really a need to continue paying an under card fighter low amounts? and that goes for both orgs, if you can justify paying that kind of money to a newb with a name then its justified paying more to fighters as a whole.

    Fact of the matter is, Brock is like a undercard fighter, who is able to demand a high salary because of his name, not what he can or has done.
    Wow your bias is getting the best of you. One he has has a great wrestling background, anytime someone has a really strong background in the main disciplines then tend to skip past the guys who have been training mma for a year or two. Then add in the fact that Lesnar is probably the biggest, strongest and most athletic heavyweight in the UFC and its obvious he has way more talent and potential than an undercard fighter.

    He already beat a solid veteran of the sport who was coming off a win over another solid veteran in Kongo. If Kongo had won that fight he would have been pushed for a title fight.

    Once brock develops a little more sub defense he will be the best in the UFC. I think if he fought Mir again he would win fairly easy and he almost finished him the first time if not for a somewhat controversial stand up.

  4. #13

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimach View Post
    Brock lacks in everything except name recognition and if that is a basis for paying him hundreds of thousands of dollars, then fine but then is there really a need to continue paying an under card fighter low amounts? and that goes for both orgs, if you can justify paying that kind of money to a newb with a name then its justified paying more to fighters as a whole.

    Fact of the matter is, Brock is like a undercard fighter, who is able to demand a high salary because of his name, not what he can or has done.
    That is not the FACT of the matter. It is an opinion I have never heard from anyone but you. Many have questioned whether he deserves a title shot, but I have never heard anyone claim he's an undercard guy.

    The simple FACT is that he is not fighting undercard opponents. If he were being paid big $ to fight a string of nobodies while he learned the game on PPV you would be right. That would be pay for name rather than performance. Instead he is fighting good fighters in good fights. Do you honestly think that if Brock didn't fight Mir and Herring, that the fighters who did fight those guys would be making undercard money. Absolutely not.

    Now Brock gets paid more than guys like Mir and Herring (top 20 types who he is obviously comparable to), and you are right that his name gets him that pay. But his opponents and performance IN THE RING (what you brought up), are not undercard level. So what I want to know is, what FACTS make him an "Undercard fighter."

  5. #14

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by p-jersey View Post
    Wow your bias is getting the best of you. One he has has a great wrestling background, anytime someone has a really strong background in the main disciplines then tend to skip past the guys who have been training mma for a year or two. Then add in the fact that Lesnar is probably the biggest, strongest and most athletic heavyweight in the UFC and its obvious he has way more talent and potential than an undercard fighter.

    He already beat a solid veteran of the sport who was coming off a win over another solid veteran in Kongo. If Kongo had won that fight he would have been pushed for a title fight.

    Once brock develops a little more sub defense he will be the best in the UFC. I think if he fought Mir again he would win fairly easy and he almost finished him the first time if not for a somewhat controversial stand up.
    PJ, I do like Lesnar and I think he has a great future in the sport, what I dont like is the kool aid that is served by teh UFC in regards to Brock.

    I dont doubt his wrestling at all as I was a fan of his while in college and was a fan of his while he was in the WWF/E. that being said I dont believe he should be fighting for the title regardless of the situation, personally I would liked to have seen him fight Gonzaga, who is a monster as well, has grappling skills and is young in the sport still. it would have been a good test for him. All he showed in the herring fight is that he can land one main punch and put in some riding time.

    Do we really want to see Randy pop the Lesnar balloon this early into his career? he'll be 1-2 in the UFC and could possibly be cut from the roster
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  6. #15

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by barrettO View Post
    That is not the FACT of the matter. It is an opinion I have never heard from anyone but you. Many have questioned whether he deserves a title shot, but I have never heard anyone claim he's an undercard guy.

    The simple FACT is that he is not fighting undercard opponents. If he were being paid big $ to fight a string of nobodies while he learned the game on PPV you would be right. That would be pay for name rather than performance. Instead he is fighting good fighters in good fights. Do you honestly think that if Brock didn't fight Mir and Herring, that the fighters who did fight those guys would be making undercard money. Absolutely not.

    Now Brock gets paid more than guys like Mir and Herring (top 20 types who he is obviously comparable to), and you are right that his name gets him that pay. But his opponents and performance IN THE RING (what you brought up), are not undercard level. So what I want to know is, what FACTS make him an "Undercard fighter."
    maybe you misunderstand me, or I wasnt clear, but when I mean undercard, I m not talking about non PPV fight, I mean non main event. but either way, I understand that it is my opinion as to what I think about the situation.

    IN THE RING, he was a great performer, Im sure Vince McMahon would love to have him back.

    In the octagon/cage, did you even see his last fight? one punch, a attempted spear and riding time, if he had finished off Herring after the punch and spear, he would shown us something and BTW when did Herring become main even worthy(sorry VonDoom) anyways? if that fight was anywhere else but Minnesota, that was not main event.
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  7. #16
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by p-jersey View Post
    Wow your bias is getting the best of you. One he has has a great wrestling background, anytime someone has a really strong background in the main disciplines then tend to skip past the guys who have been training mma for a year or two. Then add in the fact that Lesnar is probably the biggest, strongest and most athletic heavyweight in the UFC and its obvious he has way more talent and potential than an undercard fighter.

    He already beat a solid veteran of the sport who was coming off a win over another solid veteran in Kongo. If Kongo had won that fight he would have been pushed for a title fight.

    Once brock develops a little more sub defense he will be the best in the UFC. I think if he fought Mir again he would win fairly easy and he almost finished him the first time if not for a somewhat controversial stand up.
    PJ - a bunch of guys with better wrestling credentials (Rosholt, Hendricks, Kolat, Angle, Pete Jersey) did not get on the UFC fast track because of their wrestling.

    We all agree Lesnar could be great and Dana has a legit reason to believe in him, but you know much of it has to do with targeting the WWF fans who want to see him fight.
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  8. #17

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    Quote Originally Posted by clmetal View Post
    PJ - a bunch of guys with better wrestling credentials (Rosholt, Hendricks, Kolat, Angle, Pete Jersey) did not get on the UFC fast track because of their wrestling.

    We all agree Lesnar could be great and Dana has a legit reason to believe in him, but you know much of it has to do with targeting the WWF fans who want to see him fight.

    Obviously and I have never denied that is why he is already fighting for the main event.

    The point I was disagreeing with is that Lesnar has undercard talent. I think in his two fights against talented veterans of the sport he has proven that he is far above undercard talent.

    Angle is not even in mma and if he ever was do honestly think he would not be a main card draw?

    Rosholt and Hendricks both but they do not have immense size and strength advantages over their opponents. The wrestling was just one aspect that I mentioned about Lesnar.

    As for Pete Jersey if he ever decides to enter mma I am sure some freakshow matches against much larger opponents will headline ufc ppv's.

  9. #18

    Default Re: More fighters are spurning UFC offers

    I think you guys are confusing Pimach's reference to "undercard" with "dark" card. He's not saying he is not worthy of being on the main PPV or televised card - just that his skill & experience is more equivalent to guys who are not in the headlining event. I don't see that as being that outrageous of a statement.


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