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Thread: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

  1. #10
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    Quote Originally Posted by DingoBrigade View Post
    Nah, Fedor doesn't look any worse than the UFC does. Fedor built his brand without the UFC's help and now they want a taste of his product. No different than M-1 wanting to get their beaks wet on what the UFC built.

    People also don't talk about the fact that Fedor only has so many years left as a top-shelf fighter. He has to cash in and it looks like they're trying to lay the foundation for something that will benefit him after his career is done. Building the M-1 brand benefits him more than a million here and a million there.

    JB himself did this exact thing with Pride, leeching off of their success with the Liddell/Ricco exchanges.
    LOL. Leeching off their success? They sent fighters over there and were expecting to get Sakuraba and Fujita in return. They got SCREWED by Pride. Then they got screwed by Pride a second time when they let Wandy come into the cage for a staredown with Chuck, only to back out of that deal as well.

    Bottom line, ZUFFA and Dana have shown a willingness to compromise, the very spirit of negotiation. M-1 has shown no such interest. M-1 looks much worse then ZUFFA does in this sense. M-1 and Fedor would be much beetter off in the UFC if we're talking Fedor's long-term interests.

    Let's say that Fedor comes into the UFC and dominates like some of you expect. Six fights from now, Fedor is likely to be close to retirement. Let's say Fedor retires then, 6-0 in the UFC and unquestionably the # 1 HW in two different eras of MMA, and of course # 1 HW of all-time. Now, Fedor is well-known not just in Russia, but in the # 1 MMA market, the United States. Now, he's no longer a fighter, so UFC ahs no hold over him there, but his name is well-known, and "Fedor Emelianenko presents M-1" has cache in the world.

    No, it's about money. They want to take 50% of the profits when they aren't even close to bringing in 50% of the profits. They want those profits, win or lose. So let's say the UFC makes $30-$50 million in profits per PPV Fedor fights on. That's $180-$300 million over the course of the contract. Is Fedor worth that? Hell no. They're intentionally pricing themselves out of the contract because Fedor doesn't want to fight in the UFC. The schedule is too demanding, Fedor doesn't like to fight that often, and he doesn't have a history of facing consistently tough competition in back to back fashion. In short, he liked the way Pride did business, with infrequent fights, and often freakshow fights. The UFC is more sport and less entertainment.
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  2. #11
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    VAK if you are familiar with the stories back then, the UFC didn't want to pay guys the kinds of salaries that Pride was paying them. they wanted Pride to pay their guys salary to fight in the UFC.

    UFC was giving champs $20g when Pride was giving champs hundreds of thousands. Sakuraba was reportedly getting up to $1m per fight. You can't honestly think that in the days of $300g payrolls for an entire show that Dana was going to pay a Pride guy that much money for a cameo.

    The UFC clearly sucked up to Pride for exposure (as Dingo said), but how dare someone else do that to them. Just the way it was "all about the fighters" when Dana first got involved and later it became "do you want to f#%king fight or not? He's done a 180 on a lot of things - major hypocrite

    You are making things up with a co-promote meaning that the UFC would have to give M-1 50% of their earings per show. And your numbers are laughable; effectively that they were asking for up to $50m per fight.
    "I don?t give a f_ck about money, bro. Believe me when I tell you that." Dana White

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    National Finalist mhs189's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    He definitely wanna be startin somethin
    "It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving foward, how much you can take and keep moving foward. That's how winning is done!"

  4. #13
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    Sucked up to Pride for exposure...where? Nobody in America cared about Pride then, and that's the UFC's primary place of business. They did it because they were looking to get more business and more cross-over, and they got screwed. The held up their end of the deal. They had a deal with Pride. Pride was supposed to send fighters over, and they never did. This is historical fact.

    Oh, and here's Vadim Finkelstein talking about sharinng the profits:

    http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/07/30...ffer-revealed/

    We offered to have a co-promotion — two fights, three fights, doesn’t matter. And we were ready to invest in that show together and to get the profit together.
    Why are my numbers laughable? They pay Lesnar a few million to fight. They pay GSP a few million to fight. 1.72 million buys at $45 a pop is $77,400,000. Take 40% off that for the PPV people, and then you have the live gate, the merchandise sales, the DVD sales. So, let's say I was over the top, and as a conservative estimate lets say they're still only getting $15 million per fight. You think Fedor is worth that?

    I really can't believe you're trying to defend this...
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

    One, two, Evans is coming for you...

  5. #14
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    VAK, the article you are pointing me to also says a $5m per fight plus a PPV piece. I don't think the UFC would or should co-promote, but it doesn't mean a 50/50 split (M-1 words aren't that specific). You're a lawyer now, I'm sure you'll see some joint ventures that are not 50/50 or 51/49

    What was the first UFC show you went to? Back in the day, it was somewhat pathetic. The place was 80% empty for the first few fights and they were begging people to make noise and wave their hands for the camera and for what the PPV audience would see.

    Compare that to Pride, where they held events in football-sized stadiums.

    Dana clearly wanted to feed off their success. And although you are saying they got "burned" for sending over Ricco (a former champ that they refused to resign), Vitor (when they were tired of him) and Chuck (an up and comer who was not the champ but who stood a chance of picking off theirs) you know (if you are willing to use common sense) that they never wanted to pay the Pride big names what Pride was paying them - there were articles on that and it makes perfect sense as well. Sakaraba, they'd want to pay him $5g
    "I don?t give a f_ck about money, bro. Believe me when I tell you that." Dana White

  6. #15
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    Quote Originally Posted by clmetal View Post
    VAK, the article you are pointing me to also says a $5m per fight plus a PPV piece. I don't think the UFC would or should co-promote, but it doesn't mean a 50/50 split (M-1 words aren't that specific). You're a lawyer now, I'm sure you'll see some joint ventures that are not 50/50 or 51/49
    The article was pointed to because it has a direct quote from Vadim. It's not conjecture or reported, that was his actual quote.

    And further interviews from Gerry Millen say similar things, including "dealing with equal terms" and "dealing on equal risk".

    What was the first UFC show you went to? Back in the day, it was somewhat pathetic. The place was 80% empty for the first few fights and they were begging people to make noise and wave their hands for the camera and for what the PPV audience would see.
    This doesn't have anything to do with anything.

    Compare that to Pride, where they held events in football-sized stadiums.
    And now, Pride is out of business and was run at a deficit, and now they give us no more fights at all.

    Dana clearly wanted to feed off their success. And although you are saying they got "burned" for sending over Ricco (a former champ that they refused to resign), Vitor (when they were tired of him) and Chuck (an up and comer who was not the champ but who stood a chance of picking off theirs) you know (if you are willing to use common sense) that they never wanted to pay the Pride big names what Pride was paying them - there were articles on that and it makes perfect sense as well. Sakaraba, they'd want to pay him $5g
    You're completely dealing with conjecture. The fact is Pride was supposed to send fighters, and they didn't. And it's not like Sakuraba (lost 3 of his 4 fights in 2003) and Fujita (only claim to fame is almost knocking out Fedor before being quickly finished) were champions of anything at that time, either. The UFC was still paying their top fighters well, at the time, and you're just making things up to say that the UFC would pay Sakuraba $5,000.

    Meanwhile, Ricco had JUST lost his UFC heeavyweight title and Chuck was probably their second or third biggest draw in the whole company. Then, Pride put Chuck on the opposite side of the bracket, against their best strikers hoping to make him look stupid, and not giving him his shot at Wanderlei. The UFC got screwed over by Pride. Twice with Sakuraba and Fujita, and then again with the Wandy-Chuck staredown.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

    One, two, Evans is coming for you...

  7. #16
    Olympic Champ clmetal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    Sending your top non-champ was to give the UFC exposure.

    I don't know why Pride lost so much money, but they blamed it on losing their TV deal. But they were the international organization at the time and the UFC tried to get exposure by calling them out.

    Sakaruba was reportedly paid up to $1m per fight (very popular there). You know Dana back then would not have paid anything close to that. He was paying good guys $20g back then, wouldn't have even paid $100g, no way. Frank Shamrock wanted $100g from Dana when Dana really wanted him (at that time) and Dana would not do it.
    "I don?t give a f_ck about money, bro. Believe me when I tell you that." Dana White

  8. #17
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    Claudale continues to deal only in conjecture.
    Jacob Schlottke---Gone too soon, and the world is a little less bright because of it. RIP, brother.

    One, two, Evans is coming for you...

  9. #18

    Default Re: Is Fedor Emilianenko Challenging Dana White?

    It's not conjecture to note that Pride was bigger, better and more successful globally (JB's favorite adverb) than the UFC at the time of the swaps. Chuck and Ricco had their global profiles expanded at a time when the UFC was flagging. Even without honoring the proposed swaps of fighters, the UFC benefitted down the road by Liddell becoming well-known outside of the US. Also, the actual swap or no-swap is a moot issue--the issue is that JB tried to co-promote with a bigger, better company.

    It's also not conjecture to note that Pride was hugely successful for many years. They filled huge venues and pulled good numbers on FUJI TV, as well as putting on the biggest, most star-studded shows of the era. They clearly made some poor decisions, but ultimately their fortunes were lost on a pulled TV deal, just as the UFC's fortunes were pulled out of the fire by a fortuitous TV deal.

    M-1 has something the UFC (and every other MMA org in the world) covets and they are attempting to gain the most value for that coveted product. Do I think 50-50 is fair? Hells no, but then again I don't like the unilateral contracts that many UFC fighters feel forced to sign either.
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