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Thread: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

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  1. #1
    Redshirt DoubleGrapevine's Avatar
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    Post Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    Reading this article in the New York Times found at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/fa...17wrestle.html, I came across the name of Gregor Gracie (any connection to the famous Gracies of BJJ?). It made me wonder, what influences have martial arts such as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Hapkido, etc. have had on folkstyle wrestling done in the United States.

    I've found in my research for Wikipedia editing that collegiate (scholastic) wrestling has had many influences from various folk wrestling styles over the years, and I wondered just what techniques could be brought into folkstyle wrestling from a martial art such as judo for example. I understand that most of those arts are for submission rather than for pins (except in competitive judo perhaps), but could certain takedowns, escapes, reversals, and even pinning combinations be developed with influences from those martial arts? It would be cool to know.

    P.S. I would still appreciate feedback on the Wikipedia articles on wrestling by the way. Please see my earlier thread.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    DG,

    I'm not sure if Mark passed his message back to you or not, but if it didn't come through, I can send it over to you.

    High School is nearly the same as College wrestling. With the exception of period lengths, riding time, and a few other minuscule rules. Many of the martial arts are used in one form or another in the sport of wrestling, a lot of the techniques can crossover. Coined "dirty" in some cases, wrestlers will bring in chokes and other submission holds altered to work with regulations of Scholastic wrestling. (Nick Simmons was/is great at it.)

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    Redshirt DoubleGrapevine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    Schlottke, thanks again. I got a response from ideamark, but when I opened it I couldn't read anything. I just got a blank page. You could try to forward his response to me if you can. Thanks.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    First of all, the article mentions Renzo Gracie, I didn't see any reference to any "Gregor" Gracie, but FYI, the UFC was originally Renzo's idea and he was the one responsible for creating the first UFC pay-per-view event. So yes, he is famous.

    I wouldn't say that there has been any crossover from Eastern martial arts at all.

    The reason I say this is because the sheer levels of competitors in wrestling since the beginning of the Cold War almost eliminates this possibility. The fact is that when you literally have millions of people competing over a couple decades, nothing is 'new'.

    There are many moves/holds in wrestling which parallel techniques found in other martial arts, such as judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. For example, the mule kick looks similar to the uchimata in some instances, the 'crab ride' looks similar to the back mount, and the hammerlock is found in both wrestling and BJJ. There are many more similarities.

    However, my guess is that most 'submission' type moves (such as the hammerlock) in wrestling have already been used by those who transitioned from catch to freestyle, and all the throws and takedowns from wrestling have evolved over the years before Eastern martial arts could exert an influence.

    BTW, here's a little factoid for you, catch wrestling has had a rather large influence over in Japan. Judokas and catch wrestlers would have cross-MA bouts 'back in the day', with catch wrestlers usually winning. Maeda, on the other hand, was one of the few judokas who could defeat catch wrestlers. He took his mix of Kosen judo (Kodokan judo & Fusen-Ryu jujitsu) and catch wrestling, and taught it to the Gracie family in Brazil. This is what eventually became Brazilian jiu-jitsu...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    Quote Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
    First of all, the article mentions Renzo Gracie, I didn't see any reference to any "Gregor" Gracie, but FYI, the UFC was originally Renzo's idea and he was the one responsible for creating the first UFC pay-per-view event. So yes, he is famous.

    I wouldn't say that there has been any crossover from Eastern martial arts at all.

    The reason I say this is because the sheer levels of competitors in wrestling since the beginning of the Cold War almost eliminates this possibility. The fact is that when you literally have millions of people competing over a couple decades, nothing is 'new'.

    There are many moves/holds in wrestling which parallel techniques found in other martial arts, such as judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. For example, the mule kick looks similar to the uchimata in some instances, the 'crab ride' looks similar to the back mount, and the hammerlock is found in both wrestling and BJJ. There are many more similarities.

    However, my guess is that most 'submission' type moves (such as the hammerlock) in wrestling have already been used by those who transitioned from catch to freestyle, and all the throws and takedowns from wrestling have evolved over the years before Eastern martial arts could exert an influence.

    BTW, here's a little factoid for you, catch wrestling has had a rather large influence over in Japan. Judokas and catch wrestlers would have cross-MA bouts 'back in the day', with catch wrestlers usually winning. Maeda, on the other hand, was one of the few judokas who could defeat catch wrestlers. He took his mix of Kosen judo (Kodokan judo & Fusen-Ryu jujitsu) and catch wrestling, and taught it to the Gracie family in Brazil. This is what eventually became Brazilian jiu-jitsu...
    The UFC was created by Art Davie and Rorion Gracie, not Renzo. The article had a picture of Gregor Gracie with Karem Gabor. Gregor is one of the Gracie's and trains at Renzo's dojo in NYC.
    Last edited by Yazdani; 11-25-2007 at 10:20 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

    All apologize now for getting a bit off the topic.

    I met a taekwondo instructor the other day. I mentioned MMA to him and he claimed that the Gracies contol it and they are afraid to let any decent taekwondo fighters participate.

    "One head kick and it would be over", he said with his puffed by chest.

    I wasn't in a confrontational mood, so I left him and his dillusions alone.

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