Wrestling Talk | NCAA, High School, Pro, & College Wrestling
Wrestling Gear
Wrestling Shoes Wrestling Headgear Wrestling Singlets
Wrestling Kneepads Discount Shoes Wrestling Bags
wrestling

Go Back   The Wrestling Talk Forums > Miscellaneous Wrestling
TWT Search:




Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

Miscellaneous Wrestling


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes Language
Old 10-28-2007, 09:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
Redshirt
 
DoubleGrapevine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 32
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
DoubleGrapevine hasn't really gotten started
Post Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

Reading this article in the New York Times found at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/fa...17wrestle.html, I came across the name of Gregor Gracie (any connection to the famous Gracies of BJJ?). It made me wonder, what influences have martial arts such as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Hapkido, etc. have had on folkstyle wrestling done in the United States.

I've found in my research for Wikipedia editing that collegiate (scholastic) wrestling has had many influences from various folk wrestling styles over the years, and I wondered just what techniques could be brought into folkstyle wrestling from a martial art such as judo for example. I understand that most of those arts are for submission rather than for pins (except in competitive judo perhaps), but could certain takedowns, escapes, reversals, and even pinning combinations be developed with influences from those martial arts? It would be cool to know.

P.S. I would still appreciate feedback on the Wikipedia articles on wrestling by the way. Please see my earlier thread.
Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote


Old 10-28-2007, 10:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
Web Host
 
Schlottke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,431
My Mood:
Tournaments Joined: 5
Tournament Wins: 1
Blog Entries: 17
Schlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a LegendSchlottke is a Legend
Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

DG,

I'm not sure if Mark passed his message back to you or not, but if it didn't come through, I can send it over to you.

High School is nearly the same as College wrestling. With the exception of period lengths, riding time, and a few other minuscule rules. Many of the martial arts are used in one form or another in the sport of wrestling, a lot of the techniques can crossover. Coined "dirty" in some cases, wrestlers will bring in chokes and other submission holds altered to work with regulations of Scholastic wrestling. (Nick Simmons was/is great at it.)
__________________
Diet & Training System | "Manage your season!"
High School Blogs Groups Videos Toolbar

Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2007, 11:29 AM   #3 (permalink)
Redshirt
 
DoubleGrapevine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 32
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
DoubleGrapevine hasn't really gotten started
Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

Schlottke, thanks again. I got a response from ideamark, but when I opened it I couldn't read anything. I just got a blank page. You could try to forward his response to me if you can. Thanks.
Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 01:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
Redshirt
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 6
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
krazy kaju hasn't really gotten started
Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

First of all, the article mentions Renzo Gracie, I didn't see any reference to any "Gregor" Gracie, but FYI, the UFC was originally Renzo's idea and he was the one responsible for creating the first UFC pay-per-view event. So yes, he is famous.

I wouldn't say that there has been any crossover from Eastern martial arts at all.

The reason I say this is because the sheer levels of competitors in wrestling since the beginning of the Cold War almost eliminates this possibility. The fact is that when you literally have millions of people competing over a couple decades, nothing is 'new'.

There are many moves/holds in wrestling which parallel techniques found in other martial arts, such as judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. For example, the mule kick looks similar to the uchimata in some instances, the 'crab ride' looks similar to the back mount, and the hammerlock is found in both wrestling and BJJ. There are many more similarities.

However, my guess is that most 'submission' type moves (such as the hammerlock) in wrestling have already been used by those who transitioned from catch to freestyle, and all the throws and takedowns from wrestling have evolved over the years before Eastern martial arts could exert an influence.

BTW, here's a little factoid for you, catch wrestling has had a rather large influence over in Japan. Judokas and catch wrestlers would have cross-MA bouts 'back in the day', with catch wrestlers usually winning. Maeda, on the other hand, was one of the few judokas who could defeat catch wrestlers. He took his mix of Kosen judo (Kodokan judo & Fusen-Ryu jujitsu) and catch wrestling, and taught it to the Gracie family in Brazil. This is what eventually became Brazilian jiu-jitsu...
Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 10:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
AA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 708
Tournaments Joined: 0
Tournament Wins: 0
Yazdani has won some fansYazdani has won some fans
Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

Originally Posted by krazy kaju View Post
First of all, the article mentions Renzo Gracie, I didn't see any reference to any "Gregor" Gracie, but FYI, the UFC was originally Renzo's idea and he was the one responsible for creating the first UFC pay-per-view event. So yes, he is famous.

I wouldn't say that there has been any crossover from Eastern martial arts at all.

The reason I say this is because the sheer levels of competitors in wrestling since the beginning of the Cold War almost eliminates this possibility. The fact is that when you literally have millions of people competing over a couple decades, nothing is 'new'.

There are many moves/holds in wrestling which parallel techniques found in other martial arts, such as judo and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. For example, the mule kick looks similar to the uchimata in some instances, the 'crab ride' looks similar to the back mount, and the hammerlock is found in both wrestling and BJJ. There are many more similarities.

However, my guess is that most 'submission' type moves (such as the hammerlock) in wrestling have already been used by those who transitioned from catch to freestyle, and all the throws and takedowns from wrestling have evolved over the years before Eastern martial arts could exert an influence.

BTW, here's a little factoid for you, catch wrestling has had a rather large influence over in Japan. Judokas and catch wrestlers would have cross-MA bouts 'back in the day', with catch wrestlers usually winning. Maeda, on the other hand, was one of the few judokas who could defeat catch wrestlers. He took his mix of Kosen judo (Kodokan judo & Fusen-Ryu jujitsu) and catch wrestling, and taught it to the Gracie family in Brazil. This is what eventually became Brazilian jiu-jitsu...
The UFC was created by Art Davie and Rorion Gracie, not Renzo. The article had a picture of Gregor Gracie with Karem Gabor. Gregor is one of the Gracie's and trains at Renzo's dojo in NYC.

Last edited by Yazdani; 11-25-2007 at 10:20 PM..
Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 10:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
Olympic Champ
 
Ground&Pound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: WPIAL, PA
Posts: 2,177
Tournaments Joined: 3
Tournament Wins: 2
Ground&Pound is a National FinalistGround&Pound is a National FinalistGround&Pound is a National FinalistGround&Pound is a National FinalistGround&Pound is a National FinalistGround&Pound is a National Finalist
Default Re: Are there any influences from East Asian martial arts in folkstyle wrestling?

All apologize now for getting a bit off the topic.

I met a taekwondo instructor the other day. I mentioned MMA to him and he claimed that the Gracies contol it and they are afraid to let any decent taekwondo fighters participate.

"One head kick and it would be over", he said with his puffed by chest.

I wasn't in a confrontational mood, so I left him and his dillusions alone.
Send me a PM Send Me a Gift My Albums
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Guest Ads (Remove)
Advertise Here
Wrestling Gear
Upgrade to Remove

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by SEO 3.2.0 RC7