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Thread: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

  1. #19
    Super Moderator Dart Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    So would we go young Gable or old(er) Gable?

  2. #20
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    Young Gable. We could even give him the bandaged look since that's how he appeared in the '72 Olympics.

  3. #21
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    I would also wonder if we're overlooking anyone from pre-1970 -- a real problem I had with the NCAA 75th Anniversary Team that forgot all-time greats like Earl McCready, Rex Peery and sons Ed and Hugh, Stan Henson, Bill Koll, Lowell Lange, Dick Hutton (to name some pre-1960 names)...

    Hodge has been nominated. Which other old-timer would be on par with Smith, Gable, Sanderson, or Baumgartner?

  4. #22
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by gg121and2 View Post
    How many histories of the period (1850 - 1920) or biographies of Theodore Roosevelt have you read?

    Congressional Medal of Honor
    Panama Canal
    Nobel Peace Prize
    Trust busting
    Better working conditions for all workers
    The first president to invite an African-American to dinner in the White House
    Reformed civil service
    Built up the US Navy

    There have been 12 major presidential ranking polls of historians over the years, beginning with Harvard's James Schlesinger's in 1948. The most recent one was commissioned by The Wall Street Journal in 2005 and conducted by Northwestern's James Lindgren. The average ranking for Theodore Roosevelt is 4.83 If you factor in that Franklin Roosevelt had not yet been president when Gutzon Borglum began carving Mount Rushmore that would make TR widely accepted as being deserving of his placement on that pantheon.

    Please note : these are all polls and surveys of HISTORIANS.

    PS Please don't counter with Brownsville - I and all historians are well aware.

    I was not giving my opinion of his presidency just what I had heard from others. I defer to your more thorough research.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    I assume we're sticking to American's only?

    Here's who I'd pick for the 4 and why.

    From left to right.

    Dan Gable - for what he did for wrestling as a wrestler, a coach and an ambassador. Dan Gable in my opinion is the #1 guy in amateur wrestling, period. He is everything that this sport should be and should represent. He represents all of the characteristics you want in a winner, confidence, self belief, motivation, class, sportsmanship, dignity, humility. He's just plain the best.

    Cael Sanderson - for what he did as a wrestler. 4 time undefeated national champion, Olympic gold medalist. I think he'll have his say as a coach too, but that is in the years to come. Sanderson like Gable, represents a lot of what wrestling is, and what wrestling should be.

    Bobby Douglass - Many are probably wondering? Why Bobby Douglass? Well, I personally don't believe Jackie Robinson was all that much better of a ball player than a lot of the other greats, but he's not famous for being a great ball player, he's famous for being a great ball player, who wasn't white. Bobby Douglass broke the color barrier in wrestling. He was the first truly successful high school, collegiate, world and olympic African-American competitor in amateur wrestling. He was also the first African-American to coach, and coach successful collegiate and world teams. Bobby Douglass, is to wrestling, what Robinson is to baseball.

    Mike Chapman- Does or did anybody love and support wrestling more than this guy? He may not be able to stand toe to toe on the mat with the likes of Dan Gable or Robin Reed, but seriously his passion and love for the sport are hard to match. I've heard Myself and Kyle Klingman often referred to as wrestling encyclopedia's but we both take a back seat to Chapman, the wrestling Bible. Mike Chapman has done so much for our grand sport and if we had a mount rushmore, I'd want him on it.
    "Within all of us there burns a passion of fire. Forever feel the heat from the flames of your desire"

  6. #24

    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    Should Gable be carved with or without the glasses?
    With Glasses, but not the long bushy sideburns. Those didn't look good on him.
    "Within all of us there burns a passion of fire. Forever feel the heat from the flames of your desire"

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by gg121and2 View Post
    How many histories of the period (1850 - 1920) or biographies of Theodore Roosevelt have you read?

    Congressional Medal of Honor
    Panama Canal
    Nobel Peace Prize
    Trust busting
    Better working conditions for all workers
    The first president to invite an African-American to dinner in the White House
    Reformed civil service
    Built up the US Navy

    There have been 12 major presidential ranking polls of historians over the years, beginning with Harvard's James Schlesinger's in 1948. The most recent one was commissioned by The Wall Street Journal in 2005 and conducted by Northwestern's James Lindgren. The average ranking for Theodore Roosevelt is 4.83 If you factor in that Franklin Roosevelt had not yet been president when Gutzon Borglum began carving Mount Rushmore that would make TR widely accepted as being deserving of his placement on that pantheon.

    Please note : these are all polls and surveys of HISTORIANS.

    PS Please don't counter with Brownsville - I and all historians are well aware.
    gg121and2,
    Theodore Roosevelt(TR)deserved to be on Mt. Rushmore for being the first president to set aside a great deal of our wilderness areas for national parks. Yellowstone had been designated a national park in 1872 by President Grant, but TR was the first Chief Executive to show a deep
    concern for conservation, or what we now would call environmentalism. But there was the glaring contradiction about him that he belonged to the Sierra Club but also liked hunting.
    The term teddy bear was coined in 1902 after Roosevelt refused to shoot a baby bear in Louisiana. The Mt. Rushmore carvings would not be made today anyway, as offensive as they are to the Lakota Native Americans. Mt. Rushmore is in their sacred lands of the Black Hills. There was a movement to add Ronald Reagan's face to it until the first President Bush made Rushmore a national landmark in 1991. After that was done, it couldn't be changed.
    Last edited by sweat; 12-05-2007 at 08:58 PM.

  8. #26

    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    I agree completely. I am an amateur TR historian and he is one of my heroes.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: Mt. Rushmore of American Amateur Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by gg121and2 View Post
    I agree completely. I am an amateur TR historian and he is one of my heroes.
    To continue with my reply, I would add to it that TR held a meeting in the White House with labor and management that helped to end the coal miners' strike in 1902. This action made him the first Chief Executive to show consideration for the workers in a dispute with employers. Yielding to public pressure in 1906, brought about by Upton Sinclair's novel, The Jungle, TR supported the Pure Food and Drug Act. As a result, today we have the Pure Food and Drug Administration.

    However, the same bombastic personality that was responsible for these achievements had it's negative side. The Panama Canal was a great advance for the world's shipping. But seizing the land upon which it was built from Colombia in Roosevelt's "big stick", heavy handed way did not enhance our image in Latin America. In a television interview, Edmund Morris, TR's biographer, said that after his famous charge up San Juan Hill TR complained to the War Department that he hadn't gotten his medal. A gentleman wouldn't act in this way.

    Also, he wanted the United States to enter World War I years before it did.
    The United States never should have been in that war. How many Americans
    would not have been born had United States soldiers been slaughtered in the
    trenches of Europe if the U.S. had gone into the conflict in 1914?

    But I read in the 1931 biography of TR by Pringle that TR continued his wrestling workouts until he was governor of New York, by which time he was in his early forties. He stopped wrestling then because of a rib broken during a match. In 1904, soon after he was elected to the presidency for term of his own, he was boxing with a naval officer and took a blow to his head. It led to hemorrhaging, that left him blind in one eye.
    Last edited by sweat; 12-08-2007 at 03:52 PM.

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