DoubleGrapevine

So we all know that the primary way to win a wrestling match (in freestyle, Greco, and folkstyle) is to pin your opponent's shoulders or shoulder blades to the mat for 1 or 2 seconds (a.k.a. the fall; the pin; or if you really want to go back far enough, the pin-fall). Duh.

My question is: in the history of wrestling, how did that particular way of winning, the pin-fall, emerge as the prime victory condition in Western (particularly American folkstyle) amateur wrestling?

I know that in many European (and some Asian) styles, you could simply get your opponent to fall to the ground on any body part besides his feet, or get your opponent's two hips and a shoulder, or two shoulders and a hip to fall to the ground, etc., and that would be it. In judo, a pinning hold also scores a win, but the opponent has to be held down for 25 seconds, and they also allow submission wins. Other wrestling styles, seem to allow a win by submission, and real Greek and Roman wrestling didn't seem to have the pin-fall as a way to win.

Of course, there was also the touch-fall (closely related to the pin-fall, but not quite the same), that was prominent in the early days of Olympic-style wrestling.

It doesn't seem that the pin-fall emerged as a victory condition until the late 19th-century/early 20th-century at the earliest, am I wrong? If I'm right, why did the Western wrestling tradition choose/invent this way to win for wrestling above all the others that were common?

1) Did the pin-fall emerge out of battle tactics, ground fighting, early professional wrestling, or even judo? I mean if we're talking about battle tactics or ground fighting, a submission by armbar/triangle choke would probably be a better way to disable an opponent, than simply sticking his shoulders/scapulae to the ground.
2) Did people decide that the pin-fall would cater to wrestlers of all sorts of folk styles when organized amateur wrestling emerged on the world scene in the late 19th century/early 20th century?
3) Was the pin-fall more "humane" than other ways of winning (e.g. someone getting choked out in submission wrestling today)?

Thanks in advance for reading and considering all of this neophyte's questions.

ideamark

Oops, he said pin-fall. Somebody's not gonna like that...! ;-)

Mark

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Those who are ignorant of wrestling history are doomed...

DoubleGrapevine

Hehe. Well actually, I was going through some of the NCAA wrestling guides on the National Wrestling Hall of Fame site, and the early ones actually did mention the word "pin-fall" specifically, and prohibited "flying and rolling falls" (I have no idea what these are, can someone please explain them to me?).

I know no one in his right mind uses the word "pin-fall" today, unless he or she is some confused news reporter, or is thinking too much about wacky pro wrestling and connecting that with the sport.

I still would like to know what was the big deal about sticking someone's shoulders to the mat for a win as opposed to choosing some of the other winning conditions in wrestling history. Thanks.

Spider

Just a guess, but I would say that it represents putting someone in a submissive position. You often turn your back against a harmful force, but your belly is your vulnerable side. When your protective side is on the ground and your weak side is exposed, you are most defenseless, at least symbolically.

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M Richardson

I think the fall (no, I am NOT going to succumb to temptation and use that other term!) represents the absolute pinnicle of control. I have taken you to the ground, rolled you to your back, and held you - with both shoulders down - against the ground for a given period of time.

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Spider

But you could use the same reasoning to define a fall by holding someone's chest to the ground while they try to fight to their back.

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"Love never dies." The Beatles

ideamark

Now that I provided a jerky response, let me try to contribute something of value...

From my understanding of early, organized amateur wrestling in the US -- early 1900s into the 1930s -- there were only two ways to win a match: with a pin (which, back then, was a full THREE SECONDS with shoulders to the mat!), or with what was then referred to as "time advantage" and is equivalent to today's riding time. There were no points for takedowns or escapes, so there were no numerical scores. In other words, results of a match might be "Palmer fall Sanderson 1:23" or "Palmer TA (time advantage) Sanderson 1:32" -- meaning Palmer had controlled his opponent 92 seconds longer. The point-scoring system made its appearance in US college wrestling in the late 1930s.

As for the submission/humane aspects -- from my research, it seems that US amateur wrestling has been on a steady tragectory of becoming safer, and less about submissions. Nearly a hundred years ago, it seems that even in HS and college, it was OK to try to get your opponent to submit. Not necessarily in the "tap out" thing like in today's MMA, but perhaps using a punishing hold that hurt so much, you were either forced to your back and got pinned, rolled onto your back to end the match in a pin. Over the years, a number of punishing holds/actions have been eliminated, one at a time. (For example, the "Koll rule" about dropping to one knee before bringing an opponent from over your shoulder to the mat -- implemented after Bill Koll graduated in '48, known for his overhead bodyslams that knocked opponents out cold.)

I hope this helps answer a small part of your question... and that others may have additional insights to share.

Mark

PS As for the "pin-fall" thing -- we have a respected poster here who is on a quest to eliminate the word from amateur wrestling reporting. In addition to being used in pro rasslin' commentary (esp by the late Gordon Solie), it was used in old-time newspapers and student yearbooks to describe the act of putting your opponent's shoulders to the mat for a victory.

__________________
Peace
www.RevWrestling.com

Those who are ignorant of wrestling history are doomed...

M Richardson

Ideamark - it sure is a lot of fun showing my young wrestlers some of those moves that were mainstays for me that are no longer legal. I especially like to demo them when I have one of my guys that is dogging it a little in practice.
By the way, does anybody else here pick "demo" partners by who has recently been in grade or behavior trouble with their teachers? You would be amazed at how often I have a teacher "drop by" practice after they have told me someone is being a jerk in class, and I promise to deal with it in practice. It really cements the relationship with the staff - and the kid gets a little lesson in appropriate classroom behavior.

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Race cars, not greyhounds!

Spider

Isn't coaching wonderful?

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"Love never dies." The Beatles

DoubleGrapevine

Thanks to all you guys for your help in answering my questions. I was able to look into some other reference works on wrestling/grappling and on the various folk wrestling styles a bit more as well, and in addition to what you guys have said I've come up with some hypotheses. I'm no wrestling historian like ideamark, so much of this is just speculation.

In various wrestling styles around the world, you essentially have five sorts of victory conditions that increase in their level of control and physical force (from the Encyclopedia Britannica):
1. Win by breakstance - Wrestlers grip each other by the collar, shirt, jacket, belt, or other parts of clothing, and the first wrestler to break the stance loses (e.g. possibly a victory condition in Irish "collar and elbow" wrestling, Scottish "backhold" wrestling, etc.).
2. Win by toppling - Wrestlers may grip each as in the first example, or choose not to, and the first wrestler to fall on any body part besides the feet loses (e.g. a victory condition in Glima, the national sport of Iceland that evolved from the wrestling styles of the Vikings; Cumberland and Westermorland wrestling; etc.).
3. Win by touch-fall - A wrestler seeks to get his opponent to fall on his back, on his shoulders or scapulae, on his hips, or on some other body part, and hold him there for a very brief instant (e.g. a victory condition in Schwingen, an Alpine wrestling style that is one of the national sports of Switzerland; Cornish wrestling; the touch-fall required until recently in freestyle and Greco-Roman; etc.).
4. Win by pin-fall - A wrestler seeks to gain the same position as in a touch-fall, but in this case demonstrates total control by pinning his opponent on the mat for a specified amount of time (e.g. a victory condition in catch-as-catch-can wrestling and in judo, American folkstyle, etc.).
5. Win by submission - A wrestler seeks to disable his opponent by causing pain, discomfort, immobilization, or the risk of losing consciousness so that the loser concedes defeat vocally or by tapping out (e.g. a victory condition in judo, jiu-jitsu, mixed martial arts, and catch-as-catch-can wrestling, etc.).

All of these victory conditions emphasize both control for the winner and risk for the loser in various degrees, with the breakstance demonstrating the greatest level of risk involved and the least level of control and the submission the least risk and the most control (but also the most violence). By risk, I mean the potential for a wrestler to lose his stance or hold, lose his balance, fall to his vulnerable side, etc. Some wrestling styles use two or more of these options for an automatic win.

The touch-fall gained by holding the opponent's two shoulders on the mat, was probably chosen early on as the ultimate goal in Greco-Roman and freestyle because of these factors:
1. Ground wrestling was strongly discouraged or even barred in some wrestling styles where the win was by toppling or breakstance. Even in some wrestling styles where the win was by a touch-fall, ground wrestling was banned or discouraged. So sports officials probably wouldn't want such a limitation for amateur wrestling on the global scale.
2. If you were wrestling for a touch-fall, some wrestling styles were notoriously difficult to gain such a victory in (in Cornish wrestling for example, you had to have your opponent flat on his back with at least three out of four pins (the four pins were both shoulders and both hips) touching the ground simultaneously in order to win automatically). Having the touch-fall limited to the shoulders probably gave international wrestlers more of a break and also more leeway to use more techniques.
3. Since the two international wrestling styles have always emphasized risk more than control, the touch-fall with the shoulders being held for an instant was probably the better choice than a pin-fall in emphasizing risk for the loser.
4. Wins by outright submission would probably be too brutal for amateur wrestling to eventually gain acceptance around the world. It was popular in some wrestling styles, especially in British and American catch-as-catch-can, for wrestlers to use "hooks" (submissions), because when people were betting on wrestlers, you could imagine that people debated when or whether a wrestler's two shoulders were held to the mat, whether the referee was being fair, etc. But often, such "hookers" who used submissions were willing to cause lasting damage in order to get an opponent to give up, so amateur wrestlers probably didn't want the submission to be a legitimate way to win outright.

As for the pin-fall in American folkstyle, it was closely related to Greco's/freestyle's touch-fall. The pin-fall was probably also seen in the catch-as-catch-can wrestling done in carnivals, fairs, and in early American professional wrestling as well as in the rough and tumble bouts done for recreation throughout the country. (I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other folk wrestling styles from Europe and around the world also played a role in the development of the pin-fall.)

I also read in a book by Renzo Gracie (Mastering Jujitsu, p. 174) that the pin in wrestling may have roots in ancient battle tactics. He brings up the speculation made by some people that if you had someone pinned to his back, it would allow either the person pinning him or his comrades to thrust through the other person with a sword or a dagger. Gracie suggests that this is probably unlikely, as you can very well with enough skill thrust through a person without getting him on his back.

Gracie also suggests that the wrestling pin could have originated from hand-to-hand combat as well. The idea would be that if you had a person pinned on his back, you could have inflicted real damage if you were in a real fight (e.g. grounding and pounding an opponent as seen in UFC). Maybe, but I think this is also unlikely, as any standing-only boxing match would give you the impression that you don't have to pin someone or even go to the ground to inflict real damage in a fight.

I suggest that the pin-fall gained by holding the shoulders or scapulae on the mat for a few seconds was chosen by us in America for the following reasons:
1. In addition to wanting to allow ground wrestling, wanting to have an easier victory condition and freedom for more techniques (limiting the pin-fall to the shoulders or the scapulae, as opposed to trying to get the whole back or at least three out of four pins (the shoulders and the hips) to be held to the mat as in other styles), and in shunning brutal submissions (even though amateur wrestling in general is not without its rough side, and allowed some submissions early on to get the pin), American wrestlers probably wanted to have a victory condition that was close to the touch-fall in Greco/freestyle, while at the same time remaining faithful to the tradition of pin-falls seen in catch-as-catch-can wrestling, and in the professional wrestling that was gaining popularity in the late 19th/early 20th century. This would allow folkstyle to be a disctinctly American sport, and not just a copy-cat of international or European wrestling styles (which I guess is one of the reasons why if you look at the early NCAA wrestling rules, flying and rolling falls, allowed in international wrestling, were not considered falls in folkstyle).
2. As opposed to someone being put on his shoulders only for a brief moment and calling a fall (the touch-fall), the pin-fall would probably provide more suspense somewhat for the spectators. For example, in the 1930s, if the defensive wrestler got out of a pinning situation before the three seconds were silently counted by the referee, it would probably provide more excitement for the fans to see what the two wrestlers were going to do next, seeing that one of the wrestlers could've gotten the fall but didn't. A weird speculation, but it could be true.
3. Folkstyle has always emphasized control more than risk, with time advantage and all. Pinning the shoulders to the mat would, as Spider and M Richardson suggested, signify the pinnacle of control when the bottom wrestler is in a vulnerable position, because:

If a wrestler is simply on his stomach being ridden by the offensive guy, he's broken down, but with enough skill and timing he could possibly get off his stomach and get to his base, with his weight being supported on his hands or knees, and might even escape and get to his feet or gain a reversal.

If a wrestler is on his back in a near-fall situation however, the best he could do is use his head and feet to bridge, which could be pretty risky when you have the other wrestler trying to control you. The offensive wrestler, if successfully gaining control for the pin, gradually puts pressure on the defensive wrestler's shoulders or scapulae, most likely by settling on the defensive wrestler with his weight. So, it would be pretty hard for the defensive wrestler to support his own weight and the weight of the offensive wrestler while he's on his back and has no hands and knees to get easily to his base. The defensive guy would also have to do his best to bridge out while at the same time not giving further advantage to the other guy to stick his shoulders to the mat for the time needed for a pin-fall.

Meanwhile, the offensive wrestler is doing his best to keep his opponent on his back and get both his shoulders or scapulae held down (most often making sure that his weight is being borne by the defensive wrestler), and if he controls his opponent long enough or gets in a really good pinning combination, the defensive wrestler eventually becomes helpless. The average defensive guy simply gets tired or frustrated in his efforts or realizes that he's just stuck and that it would be useless to try to get out of the hold, and just quits fighting back the pin. (Or the defensive guy simply gets surprised that he's in a pinning situation and gets pinned before he has time to react.) Gaining more and more control, the offensive guy eventually sticks his opponent's shoulders to the mat until the referee calls the fall.

So I guess pinning the shoulders or scapulae was chosen as the ultimate way to win because it was the most harmless (as opposed to some submissions) and efficient way (as opposed to some of the other wrestling styles) to win while still dominating and subduing an opponent, which would probably fit well with folkstyle's emphasis on control.

Just my own speculations. If I'm wrong about any of this, please feel free to correct me.