Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Dont let Scott see this thread.
Too late.
Henry is great, but he's still arguably not even the best 55'er in the USA, he needs to either beat Sammie, or Sammie needs to officially retire for that to be true, at least in my opinion.
It isn't really arguable at this point. Sammie has the credentials and has beaten Henry in a fairly solid way.
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Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
However, it works in Russia because all of the studs are wrestling freestyle and there are matches galore their.
In the US, the best competition isn't all necessarily at the OTC or college all at once. So they aren't constantly be tested against each other to make them all better. If Henry was wrestling guys like Vic Moreno, Nick Simmons, Hazewinkle, Nickerson, and so on on a regular basis in regular matches or tournaments for 4-6 months out of the year, I think he would be beating those Russians. The Russians are doing that pretty much year around, against their best guys every week.
Our best competition is split up and so not all the tough guys are going against each other regularly. If I split my team in half splitting some of the best guys up, both groups would be stagnant. Then split up their competition and the overall wrestling becomes stagnant. Thus, making the entire state weaker, not stronger.
Instead, Cejudo goes up against the tough guys maybe once a year, then is expected to go onto the World scene and beat Russians and other countries best wrestlers. Not gonna work in the US.
And being the best in the US doesn't mean squat in FR right now. Look at the results.
If he would've went to college for even 2 yrs, he would've gotten in about 80 matches, not counting spring season. That about 60 more than he has now because they rarely ever compete. They go to maybe 3 events a yr, then 2-3 in the US sometimes and wrestle maybe 4 matches at each place. I got guys that have wrestled 150 matches already since Feb. and you can tell how much better they've gotten. REAL mat time counts, especially at the international level.
Originally Posted by sgallan
Here's my thing, I think he should've went to college first and got his four yrs in and then make the jump.
Oh sure, that makes a lot of sense. Lets wrestle a different style, instead of doing it like... well, maybe Russia.... does it. Because our system is so very much superior.... never mind the Russians are absolutely destroying us, and win worlds virtually every year. And while we are at it, lets ignore what our greco guys are doing, including one Henry Lester, who also skipped the DI thing, and is now a perennial placer. And lets have a wrestler like a Cejudo get out of college, train and make one Olympics, then bail because it is time to move on (like Cael Sanderson) instead of having a long and great career.... like a countless number of Russian/Soviets. I mean our system must be superior no matter what the actual results are because it is American afterall and everything we do is superior.
Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Tough to quantify the US's true performance.
Russia was the class of the show. Hands down. With 4 golds and one bronze, they've only lost 1 match.
Its Russia....and everybody else.
The US is just about on par, if not better than the remaining countries (three bronze medal matches....and Heskett was very close to beating Murtsaliev........Cormier and Rowlands to go).
Cejudo disappointed me. He really had an opportunity to make some noise. Amazing draw.
Tough call on the Zadick match which could have gone either way. The bracket system is what it is and we didn't get to see any possible run at a gut check bronze (really hate that).
I'll hold off on my final evaluation until our big men are done.
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Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
That's very true. However, just because Sammie retires, doesn't automatically make him the best guy. He didn't earn it since he never beat the best guy in the first place. I'm sure if Sammie was kicking his ass on a regular basis, he'd get better, but that's not happening so he's not reaching his potential because he skipped college and isn't wrestling the best guys constantly.
And yes Harry did it, but will he maintain it? That's the question.
Originally Posted by sgallan
Dont let Scott see this thread.
Too late.
Henry is great, but he's still arguably not even the best 55'er in the USA, he needs to either beat Sammie, or Sammie needs to officially retire for that to be true, at least in my opinion.
It isn't really arguable at this point. Sammie has the credentials and has beaten Henry in a fairly solid way.
Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Some of you people just dont get it. I told sgallan this a while ago. Sure he is wrestling at OTC and all but like wrestler 118 here is saying, who is his coach? Terry Brands, a virtually mindless power train who went to college, trained like a maniac with Gable and overpowered guys when he became very mature for a couple World titles. This method is a disaster for mass training, meaning one in 50 maybe will go through the Gable stuff.
Cejudo simply doesn't have the right strategy most of the time. Beloglasov gave some things but Beloglasov is not here anymore.
Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
but that's not happening so he's not reaching his potential because he skipped college and isn't wrestling the best guys constantly.
So when he is wrestling in all of these international tournaments, against the best wrestlers in the world, in the style of wrestling that world wrestles, he and doing so at the same pace, in the same tournaments, as those wrestlers, he isn't really wrestling the best wrestlers, nor getting the best training. With coaches like Jackson, Brands, and any number of wrestlers - both American and from other nations - coming through meaning nothing. Okay.... that makes even more sense because of course - following your apparent jingonistic logic (though I think you are actually trolling) - it is best because it is American.
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Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Henry would be the best guy if Sammie retired because he's beaten everyone at the weight save for Sammie. Maybe Nickerson comes on the scene in a couple years and makes some noise, but for now Henry is the established #2 guy at the weight class.
Harry Lester destroyed last year's World Champ at the dual in Chicago in February, and was arguably a bad call away from the finals this year. Barring catastrophic injury, or a complete unforseen loss of interest or skills he has established himself as one of the best 66 kg Greco guys in the world, without going the "college route" and will be one for a long time.
Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Big - Jackson however is very good at strategy. And going the DI route sure as heck isn't going to help him internationally. It didn't help Nickerson for example, who was every bit Henry's equal in Juniors until Henry became a Senior in HS.
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I am 48, bald, ugly, and don't own a single cool thing. Kids like me though.
Re: Was the Cejudo experiment a bust and other questions?
Abas is the proverbial elephant in the room, but whether he can get himself healthy from whatever is now, or has been ailing him over the past couple years, AND then healthily make the cut back down to 55, is the big question.
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