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Thread: Freshman on varsity

  1. #19

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    I have stated it numerous times that there are some great freshmen, the Stiebers, Chris Phillips, David Taylor, Devos, McCaulley, etc. BUT, they are RARE and not the norm.

    The underclassmen we had on our good teams were not run of the mill freshmen. One(our 112lber) was a 3X semi-state qualifier(first in our school's history). He was a conference runner-up as a freshman. The other was very experienced and ended up being a state qualifier by his senior season. He also wrestled JV for about half the season until he could make 160lbs in a healthy manner. Behind whom you ask? A junior that was just a little more experienced. The same kid was forced to wrestle heavyweight as a sophomore weighing 190lbs, because we had a two seniors at 189 and 215 that he couldn't beat. Both were very talented wrestlers and they would have started as freshmen on many, many teams because of that. The fact is that on that team we had probably 8 other freshmen that didn't start. Why? Because they weren't as experienced and had juniors or seniors ahead of them. Note that we did forfeit 103lbs and if we had a freshman or anyone for that matter in that spot he would most likely been someone that got beat 99% of the time due to lack of experience.

    This year's team, our 103/112lber will get the spot because there will most likely be no one else at the weight class. The other kid who may or may not start because there are experienced juniors and seniors around his weight only lost one middle school match the past two years. Again, he is not a typical freshman.

    Last year, when we had a solid, but not great team, we had two freshmen in the lineup. One at 103 that was a first year wrestler that won one real match and collected 12 forfeits during the season. They only reason he had a spot was because he was small. The other was our 171lber. Again, not a typical freshman as he was very experienced and went 23-9 basically wrestling up a weight class or two for us.

    Your average freshman should not be a varsity athlete in ANY sport! Right now in the sport there are too many average or below average freshman that are starting for their varsity teams. That doesn't help the sport at all. When a coach is forced to throw out athletes that are not ready for varsity competition(no matter the age), the team and the product is not going to be as good.

    I'm not here saying that kids like the Stiebers, Chris Phillips, David Taylor, Devos, McCaulley, etc. shouldn't be varsity, but those types are rare. Teams that throw out many freshmen and sophomores will not be good teams. I would venture to say the team with the most juniors and senior starting will win duals 9 times out of 10. Obviously other things factor into that, but if I were to see two teams I know nothing about wrestle and have to guess who would win a dual, I would go with the one with more upperclassmen. The same goes for if I am watching two individuals wrestling that I don't know. I would take the upperclassmen over the underclassmen if I didn't know anything else.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    When I wrestled in PA in the late 80's freshman wrestled on the junior high team along with 7th and 8th graders.

    Very, very rarely did a freshman wrestle varsity.

    Today it is common place to see freshman mixed throughout a varsity line up.

    What caused this trend?

    Is it healthy for the sport?
    One of the things that caused this trend is the change from Jr. High/Sr. High to Middle/High School. I graduated HS in 1983 and we went K-6 in elementary, 7-9 in Jr. High (we got HS credits for 9th grade) and 10-12 in Sr. High. Today kids go K-5, 6-8. 9-12 so school sports teams have changed to reflect the structure of the schools. Kids participate in sports at the physical location where they attend school. If that physical location changes, so do the sports teams.

    IMO high school sports are for high school athletes. As long as kids win their spots what's the difference how old they are? Varsity should be for the best athletes. If the best wrestlers are freshman then they should be on varsity. If the best wrestlers are seniors they THEYa should be on varsity. IMO everyone should be able to compete for a varsity spot.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    When I was a freshman I did wrestle varsity, but only after I had beat a sophomore and senior to get the 112 stop. Then once I was there I ended up placing 8th in state.

    If a freshman can earn his weightclass he deserves it, but the ones who never wrestle off for it and don't have much success don't.

  4. #22
    Mayor of Bringsburg homerdindon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    I can see both sides of it. My freshman year, I would have killed someone if I wasn't allowed to wrestle varsity.

    This past year at the school I coached though, we had some first year guys that had to wrestle varsity just to try to fill half of a lineup. They got pummelled every match and probably lost the desire to wrestle altogether.
    "Now class, I'd like for you to transition from downward dog....straight to FULL BRING!!!"

  5. #23

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by homerdindon View Post
    I can see both sides of it. My freshman year, I would have killed someone if I wasn't allowed to wrestle varsity.
    I'm going to venture to guess that you were pretty successful and probably went to state or was very close that year.

    Quote Originally Posted by homerdindon View Post
    This past year at the school I coached though, we had some first year guys that had to wrestle varsity just to try to fill half of a lineup. They got pummelled every match and probably lost the desire to wrestle altogether.
    Do you believe those freshmen would be better off wrestling against JV or freshmen opponents?
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    If a freshmen can earn a spot then he deserves it. A coach who puts a green freshmen in to fill a spot is wrong.

    I believe that alot of freshmen should stay jv even if they can beat the upperclassmen. Why? because most are not mentally or physically ready. I have seen very good kids who wrestled varsity their freshmen year and loose a lot and never became what they could have developed into. Now they were at heavier weights.

    Now there are exceptions as mentioned earlier and also the lighter weights where it is mostly freshmen and sophomores with some Jr.'s and seniors sprinkled in.

  7. #25
    Mayor of Bringsburg homerdindon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Yeah, I was undefeated my freshman year.

    I definitely think that those freshman would have been much better off wrestling JV or freshman. I honestly felt really bad for them. I doubt most of them will even wrestle this coming year.
    "Now class, I'd like for you to transition from downward dog....straight to FULL BRING!!!"

  8. #26

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    So what you are saying is that throwing unprepared freshmen out in the varsity line-up is not good for the kids, the team, and probably the sport in general?

    That is a crazy assumption there Mr. Homer! Those kids EARNED their spots and deserve to be varsity, whether the kids, team and/or sport suffers shouldn't matter!
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  9. #27
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    So what you are saying is that throwing unprepared freshmen out in the varsity line-up is not good for the kids, the team, and probably the sport in general?

    That is a crazy assumption there Mr. Homer! Those kids EARNED their spots and deserve to be varsity, whether the kids, team and/or sport suffers shouldn't matter!

    Interesting spin you tend put on others comments.

    Wouldn't it be more accurate that throwing any inexperienced wrestler to the wolves would probably be a bad thing no matter if they are freshmen & sophomores or juniors & seniors?

    The lack of experience or having experience is the key as well as overall ability, not purely age like you keep trying to spin.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

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