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Thread: Freshman on varsity

  1. #226

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    No matter how much you want to argue it, the simple fact is that according to ccbig's BMI calculator, anyone 5' 2.5" or below at 103lbs is underweight. I guess there are just a lot of midgets running around in other states.
    I'm in agreement with you on the crux of this argument - just pointing out that, to be fair, including 13 & 14 year olds in the height/weight stats for 9th graders is legit.

    By the way, you lose some of your audience with comments like the midget one above and some of the other similar remarks you've made in other posts. Some people who may have been on the fence and/or swayed to agree with your opinion will choose to take the opposite position because of the snide remarks rather than pay attention to the valid points being made.
    Last edited by MetsFan; 08-14-2008 at 11:05 AM.


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  2. #227
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    No matter how much you want to argue it, the simple fact is that according to ccbig's BMI calculator, anyone 5' 2.5" or below at 103lbs is underweight. I guess there are just a lot of midgets running around in other states.
    There's a tactful arguement.

    As I pointed out "BMI scales averages and weight averages" would also very on body build.

    My middle son at last year at about 5' tall weighed 90lbs. His natural weight was 90-92, his BMI was 6%.

    He was naturally that size. He was not cutting weight because he wrestled at 103.

    He is naturally has very little body fat and is muscular enough to have a v-shaped chest body build. (not the straight line with chest the same width as waist)

    There are naturally thin and naturally low body BMI people.

    It still comes down to the facts that-

    1) The elimination of either extremes of weight classes would eliminate large numbers of wrestlers in the high school ages.

    2) High school elimination of lowest weight classes would seriously harm the lower weight classes in later years for the college and olympic levels. Where else do those small wrestlers come from?

    3) There are wrestlers or potential wrestlers (although in lesser numbers) that are the right natural weights to wrestle in both extreme ends of the weight ranges.

    4) More must be done by coaches & teams to gather more wrestlers into the sport with extra effort needed in recruiting and retaining wrestlers that are the extremes in low and high weight sizes because there are fewer kids available then the obviously larger amount of middle weight wrestlers.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  3. #228

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    You have stated that 25% of the students in 9th and 10th grades are between 105 and 103lbs. You have been adamant that there are many kids that weight 103lbs at the high school level, yet the studies do not show that.

    You have been all over the BMI thing since the start, but now that I have shown you that the 90% of the freshmen would be underweight if they were 103lbs you are trying to say that the BMI isn't really that big of a thing. Please make up your mind since you are so big on the BMI bandwagon.

    Kids are getting bigger, both in weight and height. Just as they did 20 years ago they need to up the bottom weight class. Five pounds isn't going to make a huge difference. You are just wanting your kid to actually have success since he will be a sophomore and be able to beat up on the 7th-9th graders next year.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  4. #229

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    You are just wanting your kid to actually have success since he will be a sophomore and be able to beat up on the 7th-9th graders next year.
    I've waited 227 post for this to come out.

    The gloves are coming off!


    For what it's work, I'm also thinking this has a lot to do with CCbigs position on this issue.

  5. #230

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    You are just wanting your kid to actually have success since he will be a sophomore and be able to beat up on the 7th-9th graders next year.
    That was mean, but funny as hell!!!!

    The thing is 7-8 graders have NO business wrestling varsity. Bring those boys to Ohio and they would get destroyed.

    90% of freshmen have no business wrestling varsity either. The 103 class is made for freshmen and a few sophomores, with sprinkles of juniors and seniors. Would the 5 lb bumb to 108 eliminate that many kids? Most kids cut down to get to 103, so now they would not have to cut as much? Would some 112 maybe make the cut? I would think and they would be mostly juniors and sophomores.

  6. #231

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    No matter how much you want to argue it, the simple fact is that according to ccbig's BMI calculator, anyone 5' 2.5" or below at 103lbs is underweight. I guess there are just a lot of midgets running around in other states.
    It is underweight for a MAN, not for a BOY of 14-15 years old. Take a look at the CDC BMI Calculator.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/heal.../bmi/index.htm

    Boys can be quite a bit thinner than men and still be healthy. My youngest son is 5'0 and weighs 85, which would be quite underweight for an adult, but it's perfectly healthy for a 12 year old.

  7. #232

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Whether it's healthy or not is one thing, but the other - and more important - thing in determining whether the weight class should exist on varsity or not is what percentage of the American high school age population is actually composed of kids that size. Then compare that to the percentages that fall into the other weight classes. The percentages should be relatively equal for each weight class. If you have to adjust the weight classes up and move a couple around or insert the ones removed at the bottom somewhere else to help even out the percentages, then so be it. Over time, guidelines, rules, etc., for wrestling and every other sport need to be changed based on changes to the culture, population, technology, etc. It may just now be time to adjust those weight classes again.


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  8. #233
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    You have stated that 25% of the students in 9th and 10th grades are between 105 and 103lbs. You have been adamant that there are many kids that weight 103lbs at the high school level, yet the studies do not show that.

    You have been all over the BMI thing since the start, but now that I have shown you that the 90% of the freshmen would be underweight if they were 103lbs you are trying to say that the BMI isn't really that big of a thing. Please make up your mind since you are so big on the BMI bandwagon.
    Can't argue with my statements 1 through 4 in my last post can you Champ?

    I will post again the stats I based my weight claims on-

    http://www.disabled-world.com/artman...ht-teens.shtml

    Based on that chart and taking into account ages 13 - 15 easily 25% of kids fall into that weight range that you dispute.

    You listed another study you claim as more valid. Fine, we could swap studies and averages endlessly. You still have big problems argueing that the kids seem to exist and are able to be found by so many successful programs and that perhaps maybe you might want to change what is happening to get those kids.

    Your answer is to eliminate weights regardless of the harm it will do to the other levels of the sport and the amount of participation it will wipe out.

    Kids are NOT getting bigger on average at this time. They are getting fatter!

    Again, do you want to change the weights for wrestling based on the average of a overweight population or based on what the healthy non overweight population is?

    Who is more likely to be athletes? The overweight kids or the average, healthy weight kids?

    You praise BMI and rip it in the same post or the next.

    I point out that there are Bell curves to any averages and you don't seem to understand what that means.

    Here is what a bell curve is-

    http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalDistribution.html
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  9. #234

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Whether it's healthy or not is one thing, but the other - and more important - thing in determining whether the weight class should exist on varsity or not is what percentage of the American high school age population is actually composed of kids that size. Then compare that to the percentages that fall into the other weight classes. The percentages should be relatively equal for each weight class. If you have to adjust the weight classes up and move a couple around or insert the ones removed at the bottom somewhere else to help even out the percentages, then so be it. Over time, guidelines, rules, etc., for wrestling and every other sport need to be changed based on changes to the culture, population, etc. It may just now be time to adjust those weight classes again.
    Most intelligent post I have read on here.

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