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Thread: Freshman on varsity

  1. #91
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    When you have a kid that doesn't belong in a varsity spot you have to walk a fine line to keep them out and for them to realize that the beatings will make you better. I would rather they have success at the JV level and gain confidence while wrestling kids more their level than wrestling varsity and getting slaughtered.
    True, but sometimes a kid who is on the brink will benefit more from a year of varsity experience and a losing season than another year of jv competition. When he turns that corner, he'll really be ready. It is a fine line, and I agree that getting slaughtered does no one any good.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Proudpatriot View Post
    Do you all live in places where there are separate freshman wrestling teams? That just doesn't exist around here.

    My son's school is private and we do have middle school and high school kids on the same campus so 7/8th graders are eligible for high school sports. We had 2 middle school kids start last season. Both qualified for regionals so they were clearly competitive at the varsity level. There are not enough in my state for folks to get in an uproar over them.
    The larger teams in the state have freshmen or "C" teams, not many schools in my actual area. The thing is(not that I am 100% on board with the idea), but reducing the weight classes would give way to more schools fielding full JV squads and solid numbers on a "C" team.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    Coachbull,
    Would you leave the freshman off your squad if you didn't need them to fill weight classes AND there was quality competition for them at the JV/Jr high level?
    Are freshmen even allowed to compete at the junior high level? Their freshmen in high school, they should compete at the high school level.

    I don't know how it works in other states, but when I was in high school the varsity and JV were all one team, 14 guys competed in the varsity dual and in tournaments but everyone practiced together as one team. If a freshmen had to fill a spot on varsity it didn't take anything away from the JV team since everyone was practicing together as it was.

    I never heard of any middle schoolers being pulled into the high school program to fill a spot because students who were not in high school were not allowed to compete at the high school level, so no feeder programs were hurt by kids being pulled up to varsity.

    I also remember that the opportunity to make the varsity squad got a lot of kids out for wrestling who might have picked another sport. The chance to be varsity for 4 years was a lot more attractive for a lot of kids than sitting on the bench for 2-3 seasons before getting your chance.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    He has wrestled since he was 5 years old. My son is in his 10th year of wrestling. How much more experience do you think he needs?
    I played football for 5 years before my freshman year and I didn't get a varsity spot as a freshman, even though I had more experience than some of the varsity players. Heck, I didn't even get a starting spot on varsity as a senior even though I had more experience than a lot of the other kids that were starting.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    My son, and a large percentage of younger lighter weight wrestlers are not the inexperienced kids you have in your mind and that you were when you the freshman that joined your team.

    He is a high school kid competing in a high school sport.

    Dang it, quit trying to diminish the hard work and dedication that these kids have worked so hard to be able to do- earn their rightful, well deserved, chance to compete for a spot on the varsity team.

    My son's wrestling team has a youth team, a middle school team, a 9th grade team, a jv team and a varsity team.

    He earned his varsity spot by wrestling off for it against a larger wrestler. (My son weighed 90 lbs. the other wrestler cut down to 103 a more then 10% difference!)

    What it comes down to is no matter what a kid has accomplished or their hard work and dedication and experience in your mind's eye it would never be quite good enough because of your personal bad experience. That was your experience and not my son's or most of the younger kids we know at these weights.
    So my freshman that weighs 140lbs and isn't varsity because of juniors and seniors at the weight classes around him doesn't work hard? If he weighed 100lbs he'd definitely be varsity because he would outwork the 103lber and has a lot more experience, but instead he is penalized because of his size.

    Wrestling for 10 years obviously isn't a typical freshman wrestler, but at the same time, he would struggle a lot more if he weighed 140lbs. Its easier to wrestle off freshmen and sophomores(and 7th and 8th graders in some cases) for a varsity position than to wrestle off against juniors and seniors. Then on top of that a 140lb kid will be facing a greater number of more experienced and mature juniors and seniors in their matches against other teams. Your son would probably hold his own at 140lbs, there is no question, but at the same time he is not a typical freshman. Typical freshmen have 2-3 years of experience at the middle school level.

    If every freshman had 10 years of experience then there would be nothing wrong with them starting on the varsity team and you would probably see greater numbers of them at the upper weights.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    True, but sometimes a kid who is on the brink will benefit more from a year of varsity experience and a losing season than another year of jv competition. When he turns that corner, he'll really be ready. It is a fine line, and I agree that getting slaughtered does no one any good.
    The inexperienced freshmen are the ones that will suffer from being thrown out on the varsity and getting pounded. The ones that have experience and at least moderate success at the JV/MS/Freshman levels will know that better days are in the future and understand that the next couple years, they will be the ones dissing out the beatings.

    The new, inexperienced kids will get discouraged from the beatings and either quit during the season or not come out as a sophomores. By them having matches at the JV/Freshman level they will not get beat as bad and even probably win some matches which will be the best for the kid.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  6. #96

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    When you have a kid that doesn't belong in a varsity spot you have to walk a fine line to keep them out and for them to realize that the beatings will make you better. I would rather they have success at the JV level and gain confidence while wrestling kids more their level than wrestling varsity and getting slaughtered.
    Champ I agree with you completely.

    Let's take 103 and 112 out of the equation here about freshmen on varsity. From 119 and up you have a lot more juniors and seniors. With that even a freshmen who can win a spot does not mean he is ready for varsity. Maybe the kid he is beating isn't varsity material.

    As a past wrestler and now a youth coach, we must ask ourselves the question, is this the best thing for this kid to wrestle varsity for his career.

    Wrestling is as we all know tech., strength and in my opinion mostly mental. So if we take this kid and he goes out and gets destroyed 90% of the time, what does his next 3 years hold for him? That is what a coach and his parents need to decide.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    I also remember that the opportunity to make the varsity squad got a lot of kids out for wrestling who might have picked another sport. The chance to be varsity for 4 years was a lot more attractive for a lot of kids than sitting on the bench for 2-3 seasons before getting your chance.
    So we should be the sport that gives out varsity letters to everyone that comes out instead of making them earn it?

    Those kids that have the best chance are the ones that are the lighter weights, not the heavier weights. The lighter weight kids in many cases get their spots by default or by beating another freshman. That is the same as choosing the next president, you are getting the lesser of two evils!

    Freshmen lettering in varsity athletics in general should be something that is just as rare as a freshman starting on the wrestling team. When I was a freshman I was one of two freshmen in the whole school(125 students in my class) to letter. It was a HUGE thing for me to letter and was a big part of the reason I wrestled. I know there were other freshmen that were 10X the athlete I was that didn't get a letter until their sophomore years in other sports and they were jealous of me because I got a letter not based on my athletic ability, but because of my size. The other freshman that lettered was a very good cross country runner and I believe made it to regional as a freshman. Again, he was an exceptional athlete at a young age, while I only lettered b/c I weighed 103lbs.

    The whole thing is that the best quality wrestlers are the juniors and seniors. Of course there are freshmen and sophomores that are great, but they are not the norm, they are the elite exception. There are juniors and seniors that aren't good too, but again they are the exception. Most wrestlers that have wrestled since they were freshmen are solid as a junior and senior. The best programs always field a junior and senior laden team. When the best programs have a freshman or sophomore in the line-up they are a STUD and one that will contend to go to state individually and has most likely had success at the lower levels.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  8. #98

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    What is the obsession of leaving high school aged kids off of a high school squad?

    I never have read anywhere that the definition of varsity=upperclassman only no matter how good or bad.

    Varsity is supposed to = best athletes
    This is what I don't get. I don't know how these guys run their teams but my son's coach has the kids wrestle off on Wed or Thurs (2 days before the tourney) and whoever wins is the varsity starter. The best guy (or girl) starts. End of story. I am not getting why it should be any different.

  9. #99
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    The inexperienced freshmen are the ones that will suffer from being thrown out on the varsity and getting pounded. The ones that have experience and at least moderate success at the JV/MS/Freshman levels will know that better days are in the future and understand that the next couple years, they will be the ones dissing out the beatings.

    The new, inexperienced kids will get discouraged from the beatings and either quit during the season or not come out as a sophomores. By them having matches at the JV/Freshman level they will not get beat as bad and even probably win some matches which will be the best for the kid.
    I think we agree here. My point is that it doesn't make sense to exclude all freshmen from varsity competition or alter the weight classes to deal with this. The coach has to take responsibility for who should wrestle and who shouldn't. No matter what rules we make, someone will find a way to abuse them.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

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