Page 4 of 15 FirstFirst 123456714 ... LastLast
Results 28 to 36 of 133

Thread: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

  1. #28
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    8,376

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    MY proposal for new weights would be
    108, 115, 121, 127, 133, 139, 145, 152, 160, 171, 180, 189, 215, 285


    108 is too big of a jump from 103. You'll encourage 112s to cut another 4 to get to 108 thereby eliminating particpation by those that could have wrestled 103. Don't forget the 2 lb weight adjustment in Feb. 108 becomes 110 and quite within reach of 112s.
    I don't think it would be a healthy choice of weight change.
    Life's not the breaths you take, the breathing in and out that gets you through the day ain't what it's all about. It's the moments that take your breath away.

  2. #29
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    1,144

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jointdoc55 View Post
    I can't really get behind an initiative that essentially results in few opportunities for wrestlers. I've read all of the concerns regarding forfeiting lower weight groups and 7th grade varsity starters, but wouldn't eliminating lower weights simply reduce the vigor with which the team actively recruits members, while also reducing options for smaller athletes?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
    <o></o>
    One thing I would like to see, though, is a weight added at the upper level in college. I have seen some pretty effective wrestlers that are too big for 197 but too small for Hwt. High school has a 215 pound group but college does not. To me this does not make sense.
    I have to agree. Taking away weight classes will not equate to more participation.

    I also agree that their should be a additional class in college in the heavyweight ranges.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  3. #30

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    It took me a while to get on board with the notion of reducing weight classes, and honestly, I was adamantly opposed to it when I heard it. As a coach who has had good numbers, trust me when I tell you that I fully understand the reluctance and know the side of the issue that opponents to reducing classes are on. I didn't switch sides on it overnight, but think wrestling's management and self-promotion are too weak to justify so many starters on a varsity team.

    I also think that the issue doesn't have to be completely cut and dry either, but we have such a lack of unity in our sport between teams and states, and are pigeonholed by consistently demanding that the leaders in decision making in our sport are those who were the most successful at it. No other sport does that. It kills us worse than people realize.

    With unity amongst states and among teams in individual states, we could streamline wrestling to have a clear cut dual season and individual season in each state. If you did that, you could have 11 weights for duals and 14 for the individual seasons. In Florida, getting a dual state championship off the ground is hard as heck as some coaches raise such vehement objections over losing a team championship based on indie points at a state tournament that it gets tabled before it gets steam. Yes, coaches argue over finding a team champion by competing team against team.

    I think the separate dual/individual seasons would be possible, or, we could de-regulate the weight classes and have them taken out of the rule book and let states determine their own weight classes. That might fly, but you'll get forty-nine fights instead of one.

    I truly feel for teams like Apple Valley, Owatonna, or many of the really dominant teams in the sport around the nation who are three or four wrestlers deep and operating a quality program and would expect them to oppose it. It's a shame in a sense, that the bottom end is tugging down the expectations for teams. For all the talk of the small schools struggling to field full teams, the real letdowns in the sport are the big schools that seem to blindly accept a forfeit. The sport as a whole, is too understanding of a blank weight class. Sure, they happen. But there's a difference between accepting them and dealing with some.

    Ironically, it's not really the exact reason why I think it's a good idea. I am skeptical that less weight classes will by itself fix the ramifications for bad/lazy coaching, which I think is the reason many teams struggle to fill teams. It may make it easier for them, but it's not the reason I think it will work. It's the simple supply/demand issue, and wrestling quality issue. It's also an issue of changing with the times. We've ignored the changing market we're in, or the larger body of kids we have. I would also like to see heavyweight go to unlimited again or at least jack it up further. We're real quick to brag about being the sport for anyone to take up, but that's an absolute lie. I've seen a lot of kids over 300 lbs that are not unable to see their feet, and those are kids we don't want to turn away.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    In Minnesota we had 8 Juniors and 3 Seniors combined qualify for the state competition this last season at 103.
    11 out of 48 total state qualifiers is pretty pathetic to say the least. Now go take a random weight class like 140 and see the breakdown and it will be somewhere around 11 underclassmen that qualified for state. Too many younger less skilled wrestlers are making the state tournament based on just being small.

    In Indiana for instance, the past five years, only one of the 103lb state champions have repeated the next year at a higher weight class. Two of the returning champs did not place the next year at 119lbs and two placed in the top 4 at 112lbs. That tells me that 112 and 119lbs are both tougher than 103lb.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  5. #32
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    1,144

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    11 out of 48 total state qualifiers is pretty pathetic to say the least. Now go take a random weight class like 140 and see the breakdown and it will be somewhere around 11 underclassmen that qualified for state. Too many younger less skilled wrestlers are making the state tournament based on just being small.

    In Indiana for instance, the past five years, only one of the 103lb state champions have repeated the next year at a higher weight class. Two of the returning champs did not place the next year at 119lbs and two placed in the top 4 at 112lbs. That tells me that 112 and 119lbs are both tougher than 103lb.
    You don't think Eric Devos will be competitive at a higher weight? You are painting with too broad of a brush here!
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  6. #33

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by RYou View Post
    MY proposal for new weights would be
    108, 115, 121, 127, 133, 139, 145, 152, 160, 171, 180, 189, 215, 285


    108 is too big of a jump from 103. You'll encourage 112s to cut another 4 to get to 108 thereby eliminating particpation by those that could have wrestled 103. Don't forget the 2 lb weight adjustment in Feb. 108 becomes 110 and quite within reach of 112s.
    I don't think it would be a healthy choice of weight change.
    No matter the lowest weight class you will always have kids cutting weight to get to it. Until we go to matside weigh-ins, which would add even more craziness to our sport, you will always have kids/coaches believing that cutting weight will make you a better wrestler. The only way for this to not happen is be more strict on the weight cutting rules and educated coaches and parents that cutting weight doesn't make you a better wrestler, its technique and conditioning.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  7. #34

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    You don't think Eric Devos will be competitive at a higher weight? You are painting with too broad of a brush here!
    Notice I said most and not all? Eric DeVous, Destin McCaully(sp), David Taylor, the Stiebers, etc would do fine at pretty much any weight below 125. I'm not concerned about kids like those. Those kids will succeed no matter the lowest weight class, but for every one of those kids you mention I could easily mention 50 that don't deserve the varsity spots and only get them because of their size.

    Notice I have already stated something about the elite wrestlers like those...

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    Its not undesirable when you have wrestlers like David Taylor or the Stiebers at those weights, but the reality is 99% of wrestlers are not like those ones.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  8. #35
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minnesota, USA
    Posts
    1,144

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    Notice I said most and not all? Eric DeVous, Destin McCaully(sp), David Taylor, the Stiebers, etc would do fine at pretty much any weight below 125. I'm not concerned about kids like those. Those kids will succeed no matter the lowest weight class, but for every one of those kids you mention I could easily mention 50 that don't deserve the varsity spots and only get them because of their size.

    Notice I have already stated something about the elite wrestlers like those...

    That same argument works at the other extreme of the weight divisions.

    How many heavyweight state entrants can go compete at the college level?

    Everyone know the highest levels of competition is at the middle weights because that is where the highest numbers of wrestler are. Should we only allow middle weight wrestlers to compete?
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  9. #36

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    That same argument works at the other extreme of the weight divisions.

    How many heavyweight state entrants can go compete at the college level?

    Everyone know the highest levels of competition is at the middle weights because that is where the highest numbers of wrestler are. Should we only allow middle weight wrestlers to compete?
    There are more 200lb high school juniors and seniors than 100lb high school juniors and seniors out there. Those weights are very competitive weights where very few, if any underclassmen qualify for state. For instance two years ago, in Indiana, all 16 state qualifiers at 215lbs were seniors. You will NEVER be able to say that about 103lbs.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •