Is this why MN coaches are trying to cut a weight class?

ccbig · 03-05-2008, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

My priorities are to have high school athletes on the high school teams. How many 8th graders are on the varsity football and basketball teams in Florida? That is why wrestling is considered a second class sport there. How do you explain to a casual observer that this middle schooler deserves to be a varsity athlete? Most of the time I would say they get the spot by default or by beating another middle schooler.

What does that say to the 8th grader who is 200lbs and solid athlete when he sees a 100lb kid get a varsity spot just because of his size? No wonder its hard to find big guys, its because they see all those classmates of theirs lettering because they are small not based on athletic ability.

I don't get the only let high school kids be on varsity thought train.

If a middle schooler is a accomplished athlete and the best wrestler at that weight then he deserves the spot. Here in Minnesota I have watched many 8th graders beat 9-12th graders at the 103 class. If they are better how can you deny them the spot?

I am very disturbed by your thoughts on any high school kid thinking a 8th grade small wrestler has it easy to letter when compared to some big lunk of a kid who decides to wrestle for the first time in high school and can't make the team.

The most inexperienced wrestlers that make varsity seem to be the bigger kids. (189+) How fair is it that some big kid gets a spot simply because of his huge size not his skill?

I would much rather see a 8th grader who had been wrestling since kindergarden on a high school team then a 11th or 12th grader doing wrestling for their first year on varsity who has no skill and is only there because of their size.

Most of the smaller wrestlers from the mid weights and lower have much more competition. Many smaller athletes get into wrestling because it is the only contact sport that lets them compete against people their size.

ccbig · 03-06-2008, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

That is why you develop kids at the middle school level. They wrestle other fat middle school kids and then become better because they are wrestling kids their own age and experience. Get them wrestling for a couple years and they lose that baby fan and become athletes after time in the weight room and wrestling room.

You problem really is in your area you do not have a quality youth and middle school program.

That is how you "develop" athletes of all sizes.

Fairness is letting the BEST wrestler at that weight wrestle!

It only makes sense to reward quality and dedication.

I know plenty of upperclassmen who have no doubt that 8th graders the likes of Eric Devos and Ben Morgan deserve their spot. I would be quite assured they are not intimidated by any upperclassmen they have to wrestle in practice or in a meet.

graduated · 03-06-2008, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by ccbig

I don't get the only let high school kids be on varsity thought train.

If a middle schooler is a accomplished athlete and the best wrestler at that weight then he deserves the spot. Here in Minnesota I have watched many 8th graders beat 9-12th graders at the 103 class. If they are better how can you deny them the spot?

I am very disturbed by your thoughts on any high school kid thinking a 8th grade small wrestler has it easy to letter when compared to some big lunk of a kid who decides to wrestle for the first time in high school and can't make the team.

The most inexperienced wrestlers that make varsity seem to be the bigger kids. (189+) How fair is it that some big kid gets a spot simply because of his huge size not his skill?

I would much rather see a 8th grader who had been wrestling since kindergarden on a high school team then a 11th or 12th grader doing wrestling for their first year on varsity who has no skill and is only there because of their size.

Most of the smaller wrestlers from the mid weights and lower have much more competition. Many smaller athletes get into wrestling because it is the only contact sport that lets them compete against people their size.

Exactly cc, Champ how can you justify puting a kid out on the mat who isn't the best at his respective weight just because he may be a year or two older than another kid?

ccbig · 03-06-2008, 01:41 AM

Champ Kind's vision of the future of high school wrestling...

Proudpatriot · 03-06-2008, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

Yes, I'm a coach. This isn't about taking away opportunities from kids. Here the middle school kids have opportunities to wrestle with the middle school team.

Well if MN eliminates the 103 lb weight class it is taking away opportunities for kids to wrestle. The fact that a few middle school kids wrestle in this weight class doesn't mean that it should be eliminated for all kids. Around here the vast majority of 103s are true high schoolers.

For many smaller kids wrestling is the best opportunity to compete in athletics because they simply aren't large enough to play other sports. If MN eliminates 103 other states are sure to follow......

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

I can see why many big kids who are great athletes stay away from wrestling. First off they see another kid that is smaller having success(albeit against kids their own age or close). They see that knowing they are just as good of a wrestler as those kids, yet they have to wrestle against a junior or senior to get a varsity spot. Then even if they are JV, they go to a JV tournament and wrestle freshmen and sophomores that are more physically mature then them and get stomped. Those kids have very little success to start out while their counterparts that are smaller are having at least a little success because they are wrestling kids their own age. Put the bigger kid against other 7th and 8th graders and they hold their own and have a tremendously more amount of success against kids their own age and experience.

I don't think I buy this. Around here there is not a huge amount of youth wrestling so most kids start in school, many as 9th graders. They understand that it takes time to get better. The kids who DO wrestle in youth wrestling tend to dominate their first year in high school no matter what their age. It's just the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

Can you remember how intimidating a junior or senior looked to you when you were a 7th and 8th grader? Think about being a bigger kid and how much more intimidating they would be with bulging muscles, facial hair, etc!
Why doesn't Florida have middle school wrestling? Is it just your area or the WHOLE state?

I'm a girl so I LOVED juniors and seniors in HS when I was in middle school!

There aren't many middle school sports at all here in FL. I am sure it is a money issue. The private schools have more middle school sports like baseball, basketball, football, lacrosse (GREAT sport for small kids), volleyball. There are serious issues with FL schools that go WAY BEYOND athletics. That is the real reason our sons attend private school starting in 6th grade. I'm glad we have the money because the public schools here SUCK.

Champ Kind · 03-06-2008, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by graduated

Exactly cc, Champ how can you justify puting a kid out on the mat who isn't the best at his respective weight just because he may be a year or two older than another kid?

He is the best wrestler at that weight class in the whole high school. Not much justification needed. Just as the quarterback on the football team is the best quarterback in the high school. Key word being the high school.

I know this is an extreme example, but if a kindergartener's is the best wrestler at a weight class should he start on the varsity?

ccbig · 03-07-2008, 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Champ Kind

He is the best wrestler at that weight class in the whole high school. Not much justification needed. Just as the quarterback on the football team is the best quarterback in the high school. Key word being the high school.

I know this is an extreme example, but if a kindergartener's is the best wrestler at a weight class should he start on the varsity?

In Minnesota to play high school sports according to state league rules a person must be in 7th grade or above. (All high school sports not just wrestling)

But, to answer your question- if they were the best athlete at a given sport and could legitimately compete with the other participants I may be possibly say yes even to a kindergardener if the rules allowed for it.

To give a extreme example Tiger Woods as a young boy could golf better then many high schoolers can. (Ever see any film of him at about 5?) I could see him making the golf team.

Impossibleisnothing · 03-09-2008, 11:10 PM

I like the idea of a weight change only because it helps out the smaller schools

Is this why MN coaches are trying to cut a weight class?

High School Wrestling