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Thread: Ramazan Shahin

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  1. #1

    Default Ramazan Shahin

    What's his story? Why did he change his name? Do they call him Ramazan when he goes back to Russia? Why would he change his first and last name? Is this mandatory if you wrestle for turkey?

    Would the Saitievs have been called the Saitievins? Or the Saitievars? Or the Saitievis?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Some countries such as Turkey, Greece and Georgia prefer their wrestlers to change their names to seem like they come from those countries even though they were born and grew up in Russia. Adem Bereket also wrestled for Turkey and lost to Slay. He was from Russia and I doubt Bereket was his real name. Another one is Emzarios Betinidis wrestling for Greece. He is actually Georgian and probably was Emzari Betinidze.

    Another one is Ketoev's brother who represented Georgia last year at Europeans and his name was changed to Ketushili.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    He is actually Georgian and probably was Emzari Betinidze.
    Another one is Ketoev's brother who represented Georgia last year at Europeans and his name was changed to Ketushili.
    Ketishvili
    Emzar Bedinashvili

  4. #4

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Some countries such as Turkey, Greece and Georgia prefer their wrestlers to change their names to seem like they come from those countries even though they were born and grew up in Russia. Adem Bereket also wrestled for Turkey and lost to Slay. He was from Russia and I doubt Bereket was his real name. Another one is Emzarios Betinidis wrestling for Greece. He is actually Georgian and probably was Emzari Betinidze.

    Another one is Ketoev's brother who represented Georgia last year at Europeans and his name was changed to Ketushili.
    Giorgi Ketoev was born in Tbilisi and his real name was Giorgi Ketishvili. He is osetian from Tbilisi. he moved to Russia when he was about 15 years old and changed his name to Giorgi Ketoev. his brother lasha was born in Tbilisi too and his name was always Lasha Ketishvili. in fact russians prefer to change wrestlers names, not georgians.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Some countries such as Turkey, Greece and Georgia prefer their wrestlers to change their names to seem like they come from those countries even though they were born and grew up in Russia. Adem Bereket also wrestled for Turkey and lost to Slay. He was from Russia and I doubt Bereket was his real name. Another one is Emzarios Betinidis wrestling for Greece. He is actually Georgian and probably was Emzari Betinidze.

    Another one is Ketoev's brother who represented Georgia last year at Europeans and his name was changed to Ketushili.
    There was also a Bulgarian in the 80s Angel Sirakov who then competed for Turkey and changed his name to Behcet Selimoglu. He may have been an ethnic Turk and that was his original name and the Bulgarian Federation changed his name to sound more Bulgarian. akzent?

    I know the famous weightlifter Naim Suleymanoglu, an ethnic Turk, was born Naim Suleimanov in Bulgaria and changed his name to Suleymanoglu after getting Turkish citizenship.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_single View Post
    There was also a Bulgarian in the 80s Angel Sirakov who then competed for Turkey and changed his name to Behcet Selimoglu. He may have been an ethnic Turk and that was his original name and the Bulgarian Federation changed his name to sound more Bulgarian. akzent?

    I know the famous weightlifter Naim Suleymanoglu, an ethnic Turk, was born Naim Suleimanov in Bulgaria and changed his name to Suleymanoglu after getting Turkish citizenship.
    The renaming of Bulgarian Turks (who were Bulgarian citizens) in the 1980s isn't comparable with the renaming of persons who become citizens of Turkey.

    The story: Until 1984, the Bulgarian Turks had Turkish/Muslim first and last/family names, however the family names had to end on Slavic -ov/-ev. This was prescribed by law.

    Already in the early 1970s, the Bulgarian communist party started the so-called ?re-birth process? (official designation given by the party) with the help of scholars (archaeologists, anthropologists, historians, linguists who were members of the party), police and army. It was an attempt for cultural assimilation by pseudo-science and force which aimed at inclusion of the Muslim Bulgarian and non-Bulgarian groups into an ethnically pure Bulgarian nation.

    In the 70s, the Bulgarian Muslims (Bulgarians who converted to Islam in the 16-18th c.) were renamed. They got Slavic names. In the 80s, the Turks, the Tatars and the Muslim Gypsies followed.

    The party-correct scholars came to the conclusion that there were no ethnic Turks in Bulgaria. They declared them for Bulgarians who had got islamized and turkified in the dark past. The Turks had to return to their ethnic and cultural roots ? to get re-born. That is why the company was labeled ?re-birth process?.

    One element of that process was the renaming. In the winter 1984/5 party functionaries, police and army forced the Turks to change their names to Slavic:
    - to translate them into Bulgarian or to choose Bulgarian names with similar semantics (in cases, the Turkish names had any lexical meaning),
    - to take Bulgarian names which sound similar or simply begin with the the same sound (for example in the case of the weightlifter you mentioned: he changed his name Naim Suleimanov in Naum Shalamanov) (When he emigrated to Turkey, his name was changed in Suleymanoglu which was actually an equivalent of Suleimanov. Turkish ?oglu? at the end of a name has the same function as Slavic -ov/-ev: ?son of?.)
    - to do whatever they want but to get Bulgarian names....

    In the spring 1985, all Bulgarian Turks had Bulgarian names.

    They have now their old Turkish/Muslim and they are free to choose the endings: ?oglu?, ?ov/ev? or no-ending. There are still many Turks who prefer to put ov/ev at the end.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    Ramazan Shahin's real name is "Ramazan Irbaikhanov" he is born in Khasavyurt, and hi is chechen like Saitiev. Why "Shahin"? It is Turkish law...

    Adem Bereket's real name is "Adam Barakhoev", he is ingush (Ingushetiya).

  8. #8

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    any matches of Ketushili???

  9. #9

    Default Re: Ramazan Shahin

    There are various ways of renaming persons (especially the family/last name) who get the Turkish citizenship.

    One of them is to choose a name which 1. is phonetically similar to the foreign name and 2. has any particular meaning. This was the case of Barahoev who was renamed in Bereket which means ?fruitfulness/plenty?.

    Another way is to give the person the family name of a prominent Turkish man or woman from the field, in which the new Turkish citizen will be active in Turkey: any particular profession, art, sport, politics etc. That was the case of the Chechen wrestlers Ramazan Irbaihanov (Ramazan Şahin) and Surhab Hiziev (Surhab Atalay) who moved to Turkey in 2006. They got the family names of politicians who were responsible for sports in the government of Erdogan (a huge wrestling fan) at that time.

    Several Turkish newspapers reported how they got them. An example:

    http://www.aksam.com.tr/haber.asp?a=51755,2&tarih=01.09.2006

    Şahin-Atalay minderde!
    Spor teşkilatının ?st d?zey bir yetkilisi tarafından Bakan Şahin ile Genel M?d?r Mehmet Atalay'ın soy isimlerini alan g?reş?iler milli takıma ?ağrıldı
    Futboldan sonra 'Ata sporumuz' g?reşte de T?rk vatandaşlığına ge?me modası başladı. İki Dağıstan asıllı Rus g?reş?i, biri 19 yaşında ve adı-soyadı Ramazan İrbayhanov, diğeri 24 yaşında ve adı-soyadı Suhrab Hızıev. ?nce TEKEL Kul?b?'ne geldiler. Ardından T?rk vatandaşlığına ge?mek istediklerini bildirdiler. Bunun ?zerine kul?pleri vatandaşlık işlemlerini başlattı. Dağıstanlı sporculardan İrbayhanov'a Spordan Sorumlu Devlet Bakanı Mehmet Ali Şahin'in, Hızıev'e ise Gen?lik ve Spor Genel M?d?r? Mehmet Atalay'ın soyadları verildi. G?reş?ilere bu soyadları almaları konusunda Spor Teşkilatının bir ?st d?zey yetkilisinin telkinde bulunduğu ?ğrenildi. İki g?reş?inin, sporun en ?st yetkili iki isminin soyadlarını alması camiada manidar karşılandı. Bakan Şahin ile Genel M?d?r Atalay'ın soyadları verilen 2 Rus g?reş?i, D?nya Şampiyonası i?in Serbest Milli takıma ?ağrıldı. Eyl?l ayı sonunda ?in'de yapılacak olan D?nya Şampiyonası i?in se?melere katılacak olan g?reş?iler, rakiplerini yenmeleri halinde milli mayoyu giyecekler. ?te yandan, G?reş Federasyonu Asbaşkanı Ahmet Ak, g?reş?ilerin kendi istekleri doğrultusunda soyadlarını aldıklarını s?yledi.


    Sorry if anybody doesn't understand Turkish.

    It is written that Mehmet Ali Şahin, Deputy Prime Minister & State Minister responsible for sports, gave his family name to Irbaihanov. And Mehmet Atalay, chief of the State Agency for Youth and Sport, gave his family name to Hiziev.

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