Re: Slay/Gruenwald

**Big** · 05-26-2008, 12:16 AM

By your logic Ganev would have won the worlds in 2006 since he beat Saitiev as well. That of course didn't happen.

**Zapp Brannigan** · 05-26-2008, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Big

By your logic Ganev would have won the worlds in 2006 since he beat Saitiev as well. That of course didn't happen.

That's not my logic at all. I said it is entirely possible that Slay COULD have beaten Leipold under different circumstances. You say it was not. Solid as always, Big.

**dirtyholt** · 05-26-2008, 12:20 AM

logic or god doesnt win wrestling matches, wrestlers do. to think god is some puppet master pulling strings is par for the course in your thought process

**TLV** · 05-26-2008, 07:43 AM

For what it is worth:
having an internal faith/belief that guides you morally and ethically, that provides you with standards of conduct and something to measure yourself against, that makes you strive to be the best that you can be is one thing...............(and even that approach has to be in conformitywith secular laws or one can rationalize 9-11 as being 'good')

to claim without logic(as that word has been used in this thread) that all it takes to achieve material things such as money, medals, a big house, etc is the same as a belief in magic, and it don't wash IMO...........

I would pray with the Petersons and appreciate their faith..................having Slay in my face waving his gold medal at me and telling me that it came because of his belief in God would turn me off big time.........

It is the difference between faith and fanaticism.........and I have no use for religious fanatics of this era or any era.......they are our present rich television 'faith-healers" and the past crackpot who locked up Galileo and burned Cathars and Jews at the stake......

**arm-spin** · 05-26-2008, 09:20 AM

The "God helped me" stuff an mean different things. If Slay means "God gave me the natural talent to suceed", I agree. If he means "God gave me the self-discipline and focus to train and compete at my best" I can buy that as well. If he thinks God gave him some Samson-esque strength to knock of Saitiev and the like,or supernaturally aided him to make the finals well, I doubt it but it's at least theoretically possible. However, as Big and q_s point out, Brandon Slay did not win his last match. He lost it. He may be the rightful gold medallist, but to say that God did it means that God made someone fail a drug test. Due to the circumstances by which he got his medal Brandon Slay should be careful what he says, and he REALLY shouldn't be telling other people what to do with their gold medals.

Finally, a couple of Random thoughts:
1: How cool would it have been if Slay and Moon wrestled for the gold medal? Imagine an Olympic gold-medal match outside of the Olypics, broadcast on public television.

2: I spoke to a guy who wrestled in the German league a while back. He's hardly an unbaised source, but apparently a ton of German wrestlers believe tht Leipold wasn't really doping and that natural steroids his body produced to heal an injury, or else some dirty doping officials, were responsible for the positive test.

**M Richardson** · 05-26-2008, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by quick_single

FU if you're calling me a troll. This guy's a charlatan.

Sorry, Quick. I have always respected your postings (even if I disagreed). I was referencing Big.

**architeuthis** · 05-26-2008, 02:17 PM

Ok, SO I just finished going through all these pages of thoughts. Since I'm the guy who started arguing with big in the first place on the closed thread, I'll throw my two cents in.

Ok, I have no problem talking shit against Slay. He isn't as bad as he could be, but he still rubs me the wrong way. For a number of reasons.

My intitial problem, and it still is a problem, is this:

If you want to pick on Brandon Slay go ahead. What I don't like, is throwing someone under the bus who hasn't done anything but help our sport and our athletes. It isn't like Gruenwald (at least to my knowledge) has a site that tells us that God is going to get us all gold medals.

What I have heard Gruenwald say, is that God may or may not give you the tools, its up to you to do the work. The same thing with the Peterson's, the same thing with the majority of rational people of faith.

I have not problem discussing religion, wrestling, or religion and wrestling. What I would have rather seen is, and I said this before: Why did Jesus help slay, but not other wrestlers of a particular faith.

Bringing Gruenwald into this discussion is effectively religious persecution, because he shares a similar belife with slay.

I think if greenforest happened to show up here, he would agree with that.

Slay can take the heat because this is how he makes his living, just like an evangelist. (ok, obviously I don't know if it is his only form of income, but you get the idea.)

I don't have a problem with the discussion, or the topic, and heck, I even like big, but there is no excuse to drag someone else throught the mud. Thats my only point.

M

**Schlottke** · 05-26-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by architeuthis

Ok, SO I just finished going through all these pages of thoughts. Since I'm the guy who started arguing with big in the first place on the closed thread, I'll throw my two cents in.

Ok, I have no problem talking shit against Slay. He isn't as bad as he could be, but he still rubs me the wrong way. For a number of reasons.

My intitial problem, and it still is a problem, is this:

If you want to pick on Brandon Slay go ahead. What I don't like, is throwing someone under the bus who hasn't done anything but help our sport and our athletes. It isn't like Gruenwald (at least to my knowledge) has a site that tells us that God is going to get us all gold medals.

What I have heard Gruenwald say, is that God may or may not give you the tools, its up to you to do the work. The same thing with the Peterson's, the same thing with the majority of rational people of faith.

I have not problem discussing religion, wrestling, or religion and wrestling. What I would have rather seen is, and I said this before: Why did Jesus help slay, but not other wrestlers of a particular faith.

Bringing Gruenwald into this discussion is effectively religious persecution, because he shares a similar belife with slay.

I think if greenforest happened to show up here, he would agree with that.

Slay can take the heat because this is how he makes his living, just like an evangelist. (ok, obviously I don't know if it is his only form of income, but you get the idea.)

I don't have a problem with the discussion, or the topic, and heck, I even like big, but there is no excuse to drag someone else throught the mud. Thats my only point.

M

Agreed.

**Big** · 05-26-2008, 02:34 PM

Nobody is accusing Gruenwald of anything. This was more an invitation to Slay to explain why Gruenwald didn't receive God's help. However, I can bet if Gruenwald did win gold he would bring up his faith and God as one of the reasons.

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