Thread: Questions about USA Wrestling

It's hard not to turn this into a bash USA Wrestling thread, when you look at this list and realize how little they have done. Have partnerships been forged with anyone in MMA, which could truly fuel the growth of the sport? What about the relationship with the NCAA? Innovative new ways to ensure that athletes are fairly compensated? New sponsorships, outside the old reliables? And, oh yeah, win frickin' Olympic medals? Have any of those things happened? Nope. Yet, as you correctly said, those people are still comfy in their jobs, while the athletes have to scrape and claw for a few grand a year.

But thank goodness they spend their time moderating message boards.

Oh, and NPOs are supposed to file a certain tax form that does make their financials public. I can't remember the exact number of it, but they are.

Originally Posted by bluestater

It's hard not to turn this into a bash USA Wrestling thread, when you look at this list and realize how little they have done.

True, but you did a fine job. If we start answering some of the questions without attacking and putting them on the defense immediately we may get something rolling.

Originally Posted by bluestater

Have partnerships been forged with anyone in MMA, which could truly fuel the growth of the sport? What about the relationship with the NCAA? Innovative new ways to ensure that athletes are fairly compensated? New sponsorships, outside the old reliables? And, oh yeah, win frickin' Olympic medals? Have any of those things happened? Nope. Yet, as you correctly said, those people are still comfy in their jobs, while the athletes have to scrape and claw for a few grand a year.

- Start with wage decreases for anyone making over what they counterparts make in the private sector for a similar job performance. No membership growth? Pay decreases across the board. Weak website? Improve it or lose the pay.

- Open up USAWrestling signups so that websites, stores, and other places besides the states can provide membership signups. Every major product grows faster when they have multiple sales areas. Worried the state's won't get their money if a site is getting it? Give them a cut for every athlete from their state.

Originally Posted by bluestater

But thank goodness they spend their time moderating message boards.

Well, TWT is here now.. maybe they should leave that part up to us

Don't forget youth level wrestling in the states. I'm on the board for NC/USAW and I can say I've seen hard work for many years in particular from Mark Scott, Marge Civil, and Shonna Vest. I also know that over the past few years USAW has been making efforts to expand into folkstyle and provide more national-level folkstyle events. No, that doesn't directly help us win Olympic medals, but it's what the "membership" wants.

In North Carolina, for example, we struggle to deal with the mentality that so many coaches & wrestlers have about how "freestyle and greco will mess you up" -- most kids & coaches down here would rather just do folkstyle year round. Several years ago, attendance at our FS/GR tournaments was dwindling down to almost nothing. So we started incorporating more folkstyle events with the hope being, well, if we get these kids into our system, start them with folkstyle, as they get older they'll gradually move into freestyle when they see those big events (Jr Duals, Fargo, etc) are freestyle.

I know it's just one small part of it, and I can't address the other issues, but since I have firsthand knowledge of what the State Services people do, at least as it relates to me in my state, thought I'd throw it out.

I've also seen regular emails with reports on membership growth and things like that, we just got one a few days ago, but I've already deleted it.

Originally Posted by Stardust

Don't forget youth level wrestling in the states. I'm on the board for NC/USAW and I can say I've seen hard work for many years in particular from Mark Scott, Marge Civil, and Shonna Vest. I also know that over the past few years USAW has been making efforts to expand into folkstyle and provide more national-level folkstyle events. No, that doesn't directly help us win Olympic medals, but it's what the "membership" wants.

In North Carolina, for example, we struggle to deal with the mentality that so many coaches & wrestlers have about how "freestyle and greco will mess you up" -- most kids & coaches down here would rather just do folkstyle year round. Several years ago, attendance at our FS/GR tournaments was dwindling down to almost nothing. So we started incorporating more folkstyle events with the hope being, well, if we get these kids into our system, start them with folkstyle, as they get older they'll gradually move into freestyle when they see those big events (Jr Duals, Fargo, etc) are freestyle.

I know it's just one small part of it, and I can't address the other issues, but since I have firsthand knowledge of what the State Services people do, at least as it relates to me in my state, thought I'd throw it out.

I've also seen regular emails with reports on membership growth and things like that, we just got one a few days ago, but I've already deleted it.

Good stuff. I assumed wrestling at the youth/HS level was growing (slowly). I would say USAW's best position is their youth - high school aged system.

The problem is, if there is no financial reward at the end of the rainbow you can only be driven so far internally toward your goals. (some people more than others)

If the top guys who do camps all over, have their own shoes, and are role models for the younger kids drop out before they can impact more youth into becoming wrestlers the sport suffers. A guy like Askren, if he knew he'd make even 40k a year (half of the executives, Id imagine), may very well hang in there one more Olympic cycle. In doing so, he has 4 more years of camps, clinics, public appearances, and other events to draw more young people into the sport. By jumping into MMA he becomes a fighter who wrestled and quickly becomes a posterchild for fighting rather than wrestling.

If you gave the #1 guy a financial reward that meant something (even 20k!) and it was enough to survive with, you would keep more around longer and grow the sport much faster.

USAW also provides a service where they'll send one of the National Team guys to your state to do a clinic. (I think you get 2 a year but not sure). I can't remember all the details (sorry) but I think USAW pays the athlete's travel, and the state is responsible for food & housing. Whatever the details were, it was a pretty good deal and I thought a good example of one of the things that USAW provides to its membership.

Of course, what was so sad, and again, goes to show how far behind NC is.... 3 wrestlers showed up.

Originally Posted by Schlottke

Good stuff. I assumed wrestling at the youth/HS level was growing (slowly). I would say USAW's best position is their youth - high school aged system.

In North Carolina our membership (both coaches and athletes) has grown a lot over the last couple of years. However, we still can't get enough athletes to field a team for Cadet or Junior Duals, and we only have about 20 go to Fargo.

It's a debate we've had for a long time (I've been on the board around 11-12 years) -- do you put most of your time, resources, money, etc, into the small percent of the "elite" athletes you have, or do you concentrate more on the "grass roots" level.

It's worked better for us to focus on development of the sport in general and getting more wrestlers involved. The majority of kids (especially here) aren't going to become All-Americans in Fargo, so let's use our resources to do the other things we can to make those kids the best wrestlers they can be and provide them as many opportunities throughout the year (tournaments, clinics, developmental camps) as we can.

oh, also just saw your question about how many have been there for 5+ years. I know Mark Scott and Marge Civil have. Not sure about Shonna. Gary Abbott has, and Pete Isais I think - if not, he's very close to 5 years. He worked at North Dakota State and was a big part of the tourney in Fargo, and USAW hired him full time.

I think, for the purposes of this "study" especially when you talk about salaries vs results, you might need to break down the staff.

Your Membership & State Services staff should be looked at in relation to membership numbers across the country, how the sport is growing on the youth/high school level, how many coaches are earning Bronze/Silver certifications, etc.

The Events staff -- how successful are the big national level events going? A couple years ago they created their "National Folkstyle Tour of America". Has participation at these tournaments increased? How much of a profit are these national events making?

Then take the National Teams staff -- those are the people I would judge based on how the senior level athletes are doing on the international stage. Those are the ones whose salaries I think should be compared to our "stars"

I just don't think it's fair to lump everyone into being held accountable for those 18 athletes when there's a much bigger picture.

And yes, I do understand the concept that you look at it like one company, and the entire company succeeds or fails together. But since we're breaking down this discussion into different criteria, I feel like each "department" should be judged accordingly.

I think you're right about breaking up the staff. But some of the things Schlottke and I mentioned, web site stuff, sponsorship, partnerships at high levels, those just aren't being done. That does have nothing to do with the people working in the trenches with the membership, but with the marketing, web and executive director offices.

Originally Posted by bluestater

I think you're right about breaking up the staff. But some of the things Schlottke and I mentioned, web site stuff, sponsorship, partnerships at high levels, those just aren't being done. That does have nothing to do with the people working in the trenches with the membership, but with the marketing, web and executive director offices.

Yes -- and since I have no direct knowledge about those people and their salaries, duties, etc, I didn't really mention anything. But I agree - and I also think that's the area where USAW is struggling the most.

Originally Posted by Stardust

I just don't think it's fair to lump everyone into being held accountable for those 18 athletes when there's a much bigger picture.

And yes, I do understand the concept that you look at it like one company, and the entire company succeeds or fails together. But since we're breaking down this discussion into different criteria, I feel like each "department" should be judged accordingly.

Definitely should be broken down by each department. I think (and you confirmed it) that Mark Scott and the people working on the 'growth' side of things are definitely doing the best job.

I lumped the 7 directors together in my salary comparison to the freestyle team because, while each has their own tasks, they are supposed to be working together for one common goal (like you said.) With that in mind, even the most successful person of the seven (the Henry Cejudo of the group, if you will) still has the responsibility to point out departments that are making their task more difficult.

Originally Posted by bluestater

I think you're right about breaking up the staff. But some of the things Schlottke and I mentioned, web site stuff, sponsorship, partnerships at high levels, those just aren't being done. That does have nothing to do with the people working in the trenches with the membership, but with the marketing, web and executive director offices.

Imagine if the websites and marketing were as well run and managed as Fargo and other tournaments they operate. Just on the Internet Marketing side of it- I could expect major increases in membership by providing a few additional services and improving advertising/marketing of the current resources they offer (i.e. Most people likely have no idea that each state can have National team members brought to their state- that clinic would be worth the membership by itself.)

Two major issues the sport has both lack staff. The area they are doing a decent job has a much larger staff.

Where they are succeeding:

Six People in: Membership & State Services
Mark Scott Director of State Services
Tony Black Manager of Grass Roots Development
Sam Barber Manager of National Coaches Education
Kevin Hansen Manager of Junior Olympic Programming
Shonna Vest Membership Services Assistant
Marge Civil State Services Assistant

Where they are struggling:

One Person in I.T.
Meredith Wilson Director of Information Technology

One Person in Broadcasting
Christina Copple Video Technician

--

Executive
Rich Bender Executive Director
Haley Thompson Executive Assistant
Karen Robinson Receptionist

I don't want to come across as trying to get someone fired, but does Rich Bender need both an Assistant and a Receptionist? Couldn't one do both jobs & the other be trained to operate the website's more basic features?

When they were launching that Folkstyle Tour of America I had a few conversations with Travis Shives and Mark Scott. One of those events was being held in NC a few weeks after the Super 32 so they were picking my brain a little bit.

At the time, we were also working within our state on promoting NC/USAW over some of the other organizations that put on tournaments here. We had come up with lists of reasons to support USAW -- about how they give back to the athletes, support our national teams, etc.

I suggested to Mark and Travis that USAW should do a lot more promotion in that area - point out the services they provide to wrestlers of all ages all over the country.

I agree there should be an entire section on their website about "Why choose USA Wrestling"

I think they rely too heavily on the state directors/chairmen to do a lot of the promotion. Which is good to a degree because the director/board within each state knows best what their state needs. However, in most states, these people are volunteers and don't always have the time.

It's a hard sell here to get a kid to buy a $30/$35 membership card and then pay $10/$15 for a tournament entry fee, when every weekend there are other tourneys who purchase independent insurance so no membership cards are needed and kids just pay an entry fee. It would be nice if USAW had posters and flyers and things highlighting the reasons that kids should join USAW that we could hand out, and I just don't understand why they don't.