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Thread: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

  1. #46

    Default re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    So you are saying that Greco is as important as Freestyle in Iran..it is not even close in the US. Yes, we are always happy when US wins but very few people wrestle or understand Greco even a little. I remember the US won a team title in Greco but I thought that is was longer ago than that. Sad to see how quickly our team has fallen.
    Jensens says 07. I thought it was more recent than that. I am no expert, but I think traditionally freestyle is more popular. Although it may be a regional thing where certain regions like different styles more, I heard Abdvali is from a region where they prefer greco.

  2. #47
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    Jensens says 07. I thought it was more recent than that. I am no expert, but I think traditionally freestyle is more popular. Although it may be a regional thing where certain regions like different styles more, I heard Abdvali is from a region where they prefer greco.
    2007 more sense. When were all the radical rule changes in Greco? Maybe the US coaching staff has not been able to adapt to the new rules and are coaching the same way that had all the success in 2007.

  3. #48

    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Dart Shark View Post
    I guess you weren't looking for pinches, hooks and the whole throw your leg up in the air as someone tries to lift you. I don't have the benefit of video to re-watch the match, but from where I was sitting, I clearly said it could have gone either way.

    I think your observation about guys doing it all day is also flawed. Not once did I see anyone turn anyone in the way which was called in the match in question. This was CLEARLY below the waist for the turn. There was no "split second." I don't favor Iran or France in this situation. I'm just telling you it from an unbiased perspective.

    He turned him below the waist, clear as day, just as dirtyholt so eloquently explained it. You might have a gripe about the first period, but there's no defense for the turn using the legs in the second period. Clear as a glass fence.
    So clear that 50,000 people disagree with you, as for greco vs freestyle popularity in Iran, depends on area and greco popularity has grown, but overall in Iran freestyle is what matters the most and always has, and its not like guys just do greco i've train with guys from the junior squad and they are good in freestyle as well, its in the nature.

  4. #49

    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Might these 50,000 people be Iranian fans?


  5. #50

    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    2007 more sense. When were all the radical rule changes in Greco? Maybe the US coaching staff has not been able to adapt to the new rules and are coaching the same way that had all the success in 2007.
    It depends what you mean by "radical" rule changes. The basics in my eyes have been the same since the first post-Athens World Championships in 2005.

    After Beijing (I believe) they changed the tiebreaker rules where one guy is on top in the first if its scoreless(red I think), blue is on top after the second if its scoreless, and then only in the third period if things are still scoreless do they go to a ball draw.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyholt View Post
    Might these 50,000 people be Iranian fans?

    LOL...
    RIP Jacob Schlottke - 1984-2011

    "If Cornell finishes ahead of Iowa with five all americans I'll jump into the Des Moines River after finals." -Herkey#1 8/16/12

  6. #51
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    In my mind the rules and the sport changed dramatically once they forced the par terre position if there was no scoring inthe first minute... if that was 2005 it blows my theory that the reason for the US decline is the inability to adapt to the new rules.

  7. #52

    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by arm-spin View Post
    This.

    In addition to the other examples I mentioned... in Noroozi's semifinal, Japan throws him with a front headlock right at the buzzer- very close. No call.

    I'm not saying that the referees don't make mistakes or that there's never any bias. I still think Totrov got two very favorable calls to make the finals. But I don't think there is a grand conspiracy against Iran.
    It wasn't even close, Very easy call for the referees. they could see the timer in the replay. Noroozi had his own problems with the referees in his first match against China.

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    no need to repeat what others have said, to me it was a clear cheating from the very start of the match. they didn't even let him attack. according to IAWF, FILA banned those referees.

    Winning 3+1 golds is a great result for a country like Iran without any tradition in this sport, obviously some can't tolerate it to see Iran in top of the medal table in Greco-Roman wrestling, but despite cheating Iran still topped the medal table.

    One must be blind to even compare Abdevali's level to Guenot, Guenot did absolutely nothing in 4 minutes and still won the match 3-0 1-0.

  8. #53
    Super Moderator Dart Shark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    There is no "official" team standings in the Olympic Games. If this were scored as FILA does the World Championships, Russia wins the team title. There is no scoring for teams in any official sense at the Games. Trying to make up "Olympic Scoring" to validate one country over another is childish.

    I'd score this exactly like I would the worlds. The medal table is across all sports. Russia had more total medals, too.

    I like Iran, their broadcasters here and at every Worlds are great people. I have much respect for Iranian wrestling and their coaches and competitors. I've spent a lot of time with them in the past 10 years. I'm looking at things from an unbiased perspective.

  9. #54

    Default Re: 2012 London Olympic Games: 66/96 kg discussion

    I think America's weakness is that they have weak groundwork. The other side of the coin is that Iran has very strong groundwork (even in freestyle) and this is the reason for the recent greco success. If America wants to improve they need to improve in the par terre position, which would probably mean changing the rules of folk style.

    dartshark this is an unofficial team competition. In the olympics people consider this by gold medals. I think you're over thinking this. Even the BBC commentators were talking about this.

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