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Thread: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

  1. #28

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    You also state that I have a bias against a group of people. I do not. I feel for the wrestlers because it is not their policy. But what do you expect FILA to do. You have convinced me that a forefitting the entire team is inappropriate. But what do you want them to do on the occasion that an Israeli is matched against an Iranian? It will obviously happen so do they both advance to the next round? That is obviously unfair. The Iranian government has tied the hands of FILA in the sense that they cannot make stipulations for one Nation because of their policy to not recognize Israel as a country.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    You can call the policy racist all you want and I won't care. But calling me racist is inappropriate, wrong and offensive. You have turned a discussion that was thought provoking and mature into a personal attack. You bring up good point to back your case but when you call me racist simply because I disagree with some of your ideas, I have a hard time respecting those opinions.

    You do not know me, nor my political stances (or lack thereof to be honest), so calling me racist is insane.

    I simply cannot condone or agree with a government that will not allow it's citizens to compete because of a political policy. Nor do I think it is FILA's obligation to make changes for them.
    Whether you are racist or not is none of my business and frankly I don't care; however your comments in this thread have shown a clear bias against Iranian athletes and a lack of cultural awareness. We have seen from Akzent's opinion (possibly the most knowledgeable poster on this forum) that this is most likely a racist policy to remove Iranian athletes to give a clear run for soviet athletes. Yet you still insist this is above the board and reasonable.

    Why can't you admit there is foul play going on here and that Fila is biased against Iranian athletes?

    btw I think it's funny how my rep went from green to red back to green again. Funny.

  3. #30

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    You also state that I have a bias against a group of people. I do not. I feel for the wrestlers because it is not their policy. But what do you expect FILA to do. You have convinced me that a forefitting the entire team is inappropriate. But what do you want them to do on the occasion that an Israeli is matched against an Iranian? It will obviously happen so do they both advance to the next round? That is obviously unfair. The Iranian government has tied the hands of FILA in the sense that they cannot make stipulations for one Nation because of their policy to not recognize Israel as a country.
    Ideally Iran would change its policy. Fila could allow the Iranian athlete to forfeit the match, however it has been known for the draw to be tampered with to intentionally draw Iranians against Israelis. So it seems to me the best solution would be to put the two athletes on opposite sides of the bracket in a simialar fashion to seeding athletes. However as I already said I think it is time for Iran to change its policy, it made its point but the only victims here are Iranian wrestlers.

  4. #31

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    Whether you are racist or not is none of my business and frankly I don't care; however your comments in this thread have shown a clear bias against Iranian athletes and a lack of cultural awareness. We have seen from Akzent's opinion (possibly the most knowledgeable poster on this forum) that this is most likely a racist policy to remove Iranian athletes to give a clear run for soviet athletes. Yet you still insist this is above the board and reasonable.

    Why can't you admit there is foul play going on here and that Fila is biased against Iranian athletes?

    btw I think it's funny how my rep went from green to red back to green again. Funny.
    Sir, you called me racist several times and I took offence. And I think I had a right to feel that way. You clearly do care that I am racist because you mentioned it in multiple points.

    I have no bias against Iranian athletes!!! I have a bias against governments that do not allow for their athletes to compete. I have stated multiple times that I feel for the Iranian athletes.

    BUT

    What do you want FILA to do in the instance of an Iranian/Israeli matchup? You neglected to answer this question. I conceded that you are correct in that banning the entire team is inappropriate. But corrupt or not, FILA is in a tough spot in this situation because of the governments decision. What is a reasonable and fair decision? Because you cannot make stipulations on seeding athletes because of political reasons.

    Let me clarify again....I do not hate or have any bias against Iranian athletes. In fact, I met Alireza Dabir in 2002(ish) and he was a fantastic person. I just do not feel that it is the job of a sporting governing body to make stipulations for political stances. And, yes, this also means they should not actively punish a group because of a political stance either...

  5. #32

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    Ideally Iran would change its policy. Fila could allow the Iranian athlete to forfeit the match, however it has been known for the draw to be tampered with to intentionally draw Iranians against Israelis. So it seems to me the best solution would be to put the two athletes on opposite sides of the bracket in a simialar fashion to seeding athletes. However as I already said I think it is time for Iran to change its policy, it made its point but the only victims here are Iranian wrestlers.
    You posted this after mine so I apologize for my above post since you do indeed answer some questions here.

    If it is true that FILA has tampered the draw to negatively affect Iranians then I obviously agree that this is inappropriate. However, seeding athletes based on political beliefs is a slippery, slippery slope. Because if this is permitted for Iran/Israel, what stops Russia from saying it does not want to face Georgians? Or South Korea to face the United States? Lobbying could occur to avoid competing against other nations until the finals.

    Just as FILA should not tamper, they should not make exceptions either.

    And I agree that Iranians are victims here also, but are we sure that all wrestlers are politically neutral and would be willing to wrestle Israeli's if given the chance?

  6. #33

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    You posted this after mine so I apologize for my above post since you do indeed answer some questions here.

    If it is true that FILA has tampered the draw to negatively affect Iranians then I obviously agree that this is inappropriate. However, seeding athletes based on political beliefs is a slippery, slippery slope. Because if this is permitted for Iran/Israel, what stops Russia from saying it does not want to face Georgians? Or South Korea to face the United States? Lobbying could occur to avoid competing against other nations until the finals.

    Just as FILA should not tamper, they should not make exceptions either.

    And I agree that Iranians are victims here also, but are we sure that all wrestlers are politically neutral and would be willing to wrestle Israeli's if given the chance?
    I agree it is a slippery slope. However certainly it is not worse than tampering with brackets and changing rules to eliminate competition.

    Ideally Iran will change its policy but failing that it would be reasonable to allow the Iranian athlete to forfeit the match and to have strict anti-corruption techniques to prevent tampering with brackets and perhaps other issues with corruption in wrestling.

  7. #34

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I hope this leads to a change of policy for Iran. I know it's highly unlikely but still not completely impossible. Yazdani-Khorram was the first person who tried to change this, first after 2010 World Champs (Nematpour's draw) and then again last year, I don't like him at all but at least he has brain unlike most of the officials in Iran. he believed that someone manipulated the draw to hurt the Iranian Greco team. Yazdani-Khorram was an influential person but now he is gone and the new IAWF president is just a puppet.
    I can still recall, after Nematpour's case 2010, Yazdani-Khorram said in interviews he would send a letter to any of the highes leaders to ask him/them what is better: to withdraw or to beat an Israeli opponent. I couldn't get what happened with that letter. I heard 2 versions. )))
    1. He never sent it.
    2. He got the answer "How can you ask such questions?!"

    +++
    To return to my conspiracy theory. )) In 2010, Nematpour was in great shape, made a great season before the worlds, was one of the top favorites at the worlds. (I expected him to become the champ at 84.) And it happened exactly to him to face an Israeli guy. Considering the fact that Israel never has a full team (usually 2-3-4 wrestlers), I have problems to understand the materialisation of the statistical possibility od matches Iran v Israel.

  8. #35

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    I agree it is a slippery slope. However certainly it is not worse than tampering with brackets and changing rules to eliminate competition.

    Ideally Iran will change its policy but failing that it would be reasonable to allow the Iranian athlete to forfeit the match and to have strict anti-corruption techniques to prevent tampering with brackets and perhaps other issues with corruption in wrestling.
    I 100% agree with all of this. No concessions made if corruption is proven to not play a factor.

    Sadly, we cannot guarantee that tampering will not occur just as we cannot convince Iran to change it's policy.

    I sincerely hope in any further discussion we happen to engage in you can be far more tepid in your eagerness to judge somebody's political or racist beliefs. In case you did not notice, despite your pro-Iranian athlete stance and supposed Iranian background I did, at no point, assume you held the same beliefs as the Iranian government and gave you the benefit of the doubt. Please treat other posters with the same amount of respect, even if they disagree with an opinion of your or two.

  9. #36

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by akzent View Post
    I can still recall, after Nematpour's case 2010, Yazdani-Khorram said in interviews he would send a letter to any of the highes leaders to ask him/them what is better: to withdraw or to beat an Israeli opponent. I couldn't get what happened with that letter. I heard 2 versions. )))
    1. He never sent it.
    2. He got the answer "How can you ask such questions?!"
    Correct, is there anything you don't already know ?

    I remember he said he didn't send a letter (if i'm not wrong) but this is his belief and he already talked to some people about it. but I don't know what happened after that, they probably told him to shut up ! but at least he opened the door a bit.

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