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Thread: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

  1. #19

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    I'm not an expert but I assume the Team Leader would intervene and not allow this to happen. If it somehow did, again I can only assume, the wrestler would face punishment upon returning to Iran.
    You and I can only assume, I would love Judowrestler (or someone else with first hand knowledge of Iran) to respond. Perhaps this would be the best solution to the problem? If the wrestlers just wrestled then maybe it could all be settled on the mat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    You and I can only assume, I would love Judowrestler (or someone else with first hand knowledge of Iran) to respond. Perhaps this would be the best solution to the problem? If the wrestlers just wrestled then maybe it could all be settled on the mat.
    Well considering how important wrestling is for Iranians (as Judo pointed out) I'm sure the repercussions of wrestling the match far outweigh the glory of winning. I can't see a simple wrist slap scaring somebody into forefitting on their Olympic dream. I imagine it is jail time or worse.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by AnklePicker2 View Post
    You have used the word 'racist' about 3 times and I think it is totally uncalled for. I appreciate that you, as an Iranian in America (I assume), face ignorance and hatred potentially daily. But I have in no way, shape, or form condoned discrimination of the Iranians because they were simply Iranian (which is the definition of racism). I have criticized the political decisions of a government that clearly interferes with the success of it's athletes and disrupts the organic flow of a tournament. Do not call me racist again.

    You accuse me of supporting the sport based on my cultural ideals, yet you are doing the exact same thing. The difference is my cultural beliefs allow for everyone to compete without discrimination or having to forfeit/lose their Olympic Dream because of, well, racism...

    And I do understand your point that the sport should not be changed for those that do not have an interest already. However, if you refuse to grow a sport that is already on the Olympic chopping block I hope you're prepared to see it vanish from the International stage.

    And hockey has changed for non-Canadian countries. We are cleaning up the game and reducing fighting, aggressive hits and violence to suit American and European audiences. I understand this viewpoint because it will increase the popularity of the sport worldwide.

    I resent your comment that because most successful wrestlers are from Islamic states so they should have more say in the structure of wrestling. That mutes my opinions as a Canadian because we have not had the success Iran has had. Freestyle and Greco wrestling is an INTERNATIONAL sport, and should thus be structured to suit the international community. That is why countries have their traditional/folkstyle wrestling that they have ultimate control over.

    And to your first point- yes...I do feel that an Iranian should lose their match if they refuse to wrestler an Israeli. There should be no stipulations allowing a wrestleback, re-draw or bracket separation to accommodate for a political policy. I do feel that punishing an entire team is less black and white, but if it were to put pressure on the Iranian government to amend it's policy and end this controversy altogether, then I am for it.
    If I feel a policy is racist then I will call it what it is!

    You are clearly showing a lack of flexibility and a bias against Iranian athletes. My suggestion is the fairest method of solving this issue. the Iranian wrestlers are the biggest victim of this policy but you are treating them like they're criminals. I think this show naivety and bias.

    Actually you're wrong, your cultural beliefs emphasise punishing an innocent party because you have some bias against that group of people. My beliefs are flexible and fair.

    Wrestling is on the Olympic chopping block because of economic reasons not because it isn't growing enough. However with the growth of Bric economies and the next 11 (which includes Iran) the nations that like wrestling will become economically and politically more powerful and this sport will not be threatened. There is almost no opportunity to grow wrestling in non-wrestling countries except due to demographic changes; so you should forget about this idea unless you intend to replace western Europe with Muslim people (I am sure a favourite theory for people like you exists somewhere in there).

    I think Hockey should change the names on the t-shirts to Farsi so that an Iranian audience can better understand who is playing. I mean this is as ridiculous as barring Iran from hosting the World Championships.

    Wrestling should be suited for the international community, but this includes areas of the world where you may need to have some cultural flexibility. There should be greater control by nations who have the biggest interest in the sport.

    Iran will not likely amend its policy there have much more at stake than a wrestling match. You are being ridiculous. This is just bullying and racism, something that you clearly support. Due to the importance, popularity and history of Iran in the sport of wrestling it should be given leeway on this issue and Fila should ignore a bunch of people who couldn't care less about this sport they just want a political confrontation. Iran is the home of wrestling, but instead countries who don't care about this sport are being listened to for the sole reason they are of White European Ancestry. This is why Denamrk hosts the world championships but Iran doesn't.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    You and I can only assume, I would love Judowrestler (or someone else with first hand knowledge of Iran) to respond. Perhaps this would be the best solution to the problem? If the wrestlers just wrestled then maybe it could all be settled on the mat.
    I don't know, but if an athlete wanted to wrestle the coaching team would forbid him. I am sure of this.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Snackem View Post
    What would happen to the Iranian wrestlers if they just wrestled the match?
    nobody knows exactly, but probably that wrestler will be banned forever from wrestling. I'm sure it won't be anything good, nobody will try it trust me !

    It happened once in past, almost 30 years ago in 1983 World Championship and in Greco-Roman tournament, after that they sent the whole team (and the freestyle team before the start of freestyle competition) to Tehran and the rest didn't wrestle at all !

  6. #24

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by gutfirst View Post
    i think it's fila's way of trying to eliminate or reduce political views being expressed during competition?
    I don't think so. Fila is a highly undemocratic institution - kind of "closed society" consisting of several small groups that actually can't stand each other but relying on each other for support. There is zero transparency in the decision making. They (who were "they"?) added a new rule yesterday. There isn't any single word about who intiated the change (made a formal written proposal?), who took the decision (the Fila Bureau? how many members were present? did they vote? what was the result?), was there a debate? You will never find any information about whatever decision made by "them"; not only about that one of yesterday, but about everyone. I would like to know, for instance, who suggested the "clinch rule". You know him/her? Surely not.

    I cannot even imagine "they" would be interested to change any views. I am not a big fan of conspiracy theories but I think the new rule has been introduced not to reduce political views but to eliminate the Iranian wrestlers as opponents, especially when competing for Olympic medals. I can recall that after the withdrawal of 2 Iranian GR wrestlers at the 2011 worlds, Fila president Martinetti was put under pressure by functionaries from the national federations of some post-soviet states. They wanted a disqualification for the whole Iranian GR team. I am 100% sure they didn't care about the Israeli-Iranian issue at all, let alone about ethical or political issues in general. What they wanted in September - that is what we see now as rule.

  7. #25

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by akzent View Post
    I don't think so. Fila is a highly undemocratic institution - kind of "closed society" consisting of several small groups that actually can't stand each other but relying on each other for support. There is zero transparency in the decision making. They (who were "they"?) added a new rule yesterday. There isn't any single word about who intiated the change (made a formal written proposal?), who took the decision (the Fila Bureau? how many members were present? did they vote? what was the result?), was there a debate? You will never find any information about whatever decision made by "them"; not only about that one of yesterday, but about everyone. I would like to know, for instance, who suggested the "clinch rule". You know him/her? Surely not.

    I cannot even imagine "they" would be interested to change any views. I am not a big fan of conspiracy theories but I think the new rule has been introduced not to reduce political views but to eliminate the Iranian wrestlers as opponents, especially when competing for Olympic medals. I can recall that after the withdrawal of 2 Iranian GR wrestlers at the 2011 worlds, Fila president Martinetti was put under pressure by functionaries from the national federations of some post-soviet states. They wanted a disqualification for the whole Iranian GR team. I am 100% sure they didn't care about the Israeli-Iranian issue at all, let alone about ethical or political issues in general. What they wanted in September - that is what we see now as rule.
    This is interesting insight into Fila.

    I also find it very interesting your comments about the Greco-Roman wrestling. I have noticed that Iran is becoming the dominant nation in this discipline and it is likely that the Russians don't like it. I do re-call that in the past the brackets were changed to move an Iranian (gold favourite) into the same bracket as an Israeli after Iran performed very well in a few other weight classes.

  8. #26

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    If I feel a policy is racist then I will call it what it is!

    You are clearly showing a lack of flexibility and a bias against Iranian athletes. My suggestion is the fairest method of solving this issue. the Iranian wrestlers are the biggest victim of this policy but you are treating them like they're criminals. I think this show naivety and bias.

    Actually you're wrong, your cultural beliefs emphasise punishing an innocent party because you have some bias against that group of people. My beliefs are flexible and fair.

    Wrestling is on the Olympic chopping block because of economic reasons not because it isn't growing enough. However with the growth of Bric economies and the next 11 (which includes Iran) the nations that like wrestling will become economically and politically more powerful and this sport will not be threatened. There is almost no opportunity to grow wrestling in non-wrestling countries except due to demographic changes; so you should forget about this idea unless you intend to replace western Europe with Muslim people (I am sure a favourite theory for people like you exists somewhere in there).

    I think Hockey should change the names on the t-shirts to Farsi so that an Iranian audience can better understand who is playing. I mean this is as ridiculous as barring Iran from hosting the World Championships.

    Wrestling should be suited for the international community, but this includes areas of the world where you may need to have some cultural flexibility. There should be greater control by nations who have the biggest interest in the sport.

    Iran will not likely amend its policy there have much more at stake than a wrestling match. You are being ridiculous. This is just bullying and racism, something that you clearly support. Due to the importance, popularity and history of Iran in the sport of wrestling it should be given leeway on this issue and Fila should ignore a bunch of people who couldn't care less about this sport they just want a political confrontation. Iran is the home of wrestling, but instead countries who don't care about this sport are being listened to for the sole reason they are of White European Ancestry. This is why Denamrk hosts the world championships but Iran doesn't.
    You can call the policy racist all you want and I won't care. But calling me racist is inappropriate, wrong and offensive. You have turned a discussion that was thought provoking and mature into a personal attack. You bring up good point to back your case but when you call me racist simply because I disagree with some of your ideas, I have a hard time respecting those opinions.

    You do not know me, nor my political stances (or lack thereof to be honest), so calling me racist is insane.

    I simply cannot condone or agree with a government that will not allow it's citizens to compete because of a political policy. Nor do I think it is FILA's obligation to make changes for them.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Hard times coming for Iranian teams

    @Akzent
    thanks as usual
    This is a very serious decision, One wrestler is OK, bad but still OK but disqualification of the whole team ...

    I hope this leads to a change of policy for Iran. I know it's highly unlikely but still not completely impossible. Yazdani-Khorram was the first person who tried to change this, first after 2010 World Champs (Nematpour's draw) and then again last year, I don't like him at all but at least he has brain unlike most of the officials in Iran. he believed that someone manipulated the draw to hurt the Iranian Greco team. Yazdani-Khorram was an influential person but now he is gone and the new IAWF president is just a puppet.

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