Especially dangerous if they focus (though I hate to say it) on thier clinch wrestling. The USA can't to anything about their atrocious luck with the ball grab this year, but they can train like crazy from the clinch position. As far as I know (haven't watched all matches) Humphery was 0/1 in the clinch (defensive, lost) and would have placed top 5 if he won. Dlagnev, famously was 1/5 (all defensive) and probably would have medalled with one more win Sanderson was 0/2 (one defensive, one offensive) and, even though he got a bit screwed by the official, shouldn't be ending up on his back when he starts with the leg. Vaerner was 0/1 (offensive), if he beats Balci he might make the finals.

My point... if you win the ball draw you are obviously in better position, but the US seems to struggle win or lose. Lots of guys- Kudukhov, Tsargush, Gatsalov, Muradov, Mohamedi, ect. have won world titles defending clinches.

or just train to NEVER be in a STUPID freakin clinch.

Originally Posted by arm-spin

My point... if you win the ball draw you are obviously in better position, but the US seems to struggle win or lose. Lots of guys- Kudukhov, Tsargush, Gatsalov, Muradov, Mohamedi, ect. have won world titles defending clinches.

This may be a dumb question, but are there countries that are known for being better in the clinch than others? Or does it just depend on the wrestler? Seems like the US would see this as a problem and hire a coach who is known for this specialty. If, of course, there is such a coach.

Quinn i'm not sure, but I know that a lot of the top Russians have won some very high-profile matches in defensive clinches. Saritov won a couple at least in this year's worlds, as did Gatsalov at the nationals.

Metcalf seems to be pretty solid in the defensive clinch for the US, though he cheats on the whistle a lot.

I know in Canada we train the clinch a lot. Haislan Garcia is very good at defending the clinch. Not sure what the training is like in the US, but the general attitude on US message boards seems to be that a lost ball draw is a lost period.

Well, just like watching fight tapes of your opponents in MMA or boxing, why don't wrestlers watch films of what others do in a clinch and then prepare for it? It seems sooooo simple, but their must be a reason that they don't. I'm guessing it's because they aren't at all the meets, but with the technology of today it wouldn't be hard to have a guy at all the tourney's to do just that. Maybe the budget isn't big enough to do it. I don't know, but it seems like it would be a pretty simple solution if people just worked on it like you said, arm-spin.

Yeah but guys like Kudukhov and Saritov don't consistently win the defensive clinch because they have a go-to move or two that hasn't been scouted. Even if you're prepared for what they tend to do in the clinch position, there's more to it than that, and I guarantee that the coaches studied just about every top foreign competitor. Flexibility helps, scrambling ability - if you're excellent at defending single legs then you're going to be good at defending clinches. Former bronze medalist Prizreni used to win the defensive clinch consistently because of his insane flexibility. Strategy can help us be more effective in the clinch, but practice in that position is the main thing.

So, bw, are you saying a guy like Askren has a better shot at defending the clinch because of his flexibility? If so, then they need to work on that along with technique. I didn't really think about flexibility b/c I don't have it. But I do know that flexibility can be improved no matter the age. So can technique. I know I sound like a grump, but I would think our coaches would know that already and prepare for it. I know nothing about Zeke or anyone else coaching the team, but I have a hard time believing that they don't work on those areas. And if they do, why do we still stink at them?

Personally, I think the folkstyle/freestyle argument doesn't fit here. I think it is a lack of preparation and a mind-set. I'll bet Gable, Smith or Brands would be good in that position if they had to be. I'm getting angry as I type, so I will just hang up and listen to responses from more informed people on the subject.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere (maybe on here?) that the Russians did not specifically train from the clinch position. That seems a bit hard to believe, though.

A few years ago, I noticed that Tsargush won consistently from defensive clinches, but did not seem to have a go-to move from there. I suspect that it's that way with most of these guys. If you're consistently succeeding with a single defensive approach from the clinch, that defense will be scouted and defeated.

It would be worthwhile to go through the film from someone who gets into the clinch frequently, and see what his approach is - Saritov, for example. If they use different defenses each time, it could be that they have studied their opponents' favorite finishes from the clinch, and react accordingly. During the last World Cup, the Germans kept a database on penalty kicks, noting where each international soccer player likes to place their shots. The German goalkeeper had an advantage against his opponents, because he knew the direction to dive that would give him the best chance of blocking the shot.