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  1. #1

    Default Wtf

    Wow am I disappointed in our showing at the World's. What happened to the teams like we had from the past up to about 2004 when if we didn't have at least two golds it was a disappointment. I don't believe the whoa is me theory money/profession theory, because how were we successful before when our athletes had no monetary bonus to look forward too?
    I don't want to sound as if I am completely bashing our guys because I know that they are all beasts on the mat I just am frustrated as to how things could've slipped so far so fast.
    On a positive note the living the dream fund should be able to gain decent interest in the next year.
    I realize this has been brought up several times before due to recent performances but this is the worst World Championships I can ever remember (32 years old) I am interested into thoughts and opinions as to why you think we were able to muster a total of 4 freakin wins.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Wtf

    I've said this several times, but we're just average freestyle wrestlers. We still put far too much emphasis on conditioning and not nearly enough on freestyle technique.

    In recent years we've had one top level wrestler concentrate exclusively on freestyle and Henry Cejudo went out and won an Olympic Gold Medal as a 21 year old.

    Until we have more guys concentrate and I mean really concentrate on freestyle we'll have our good years (04, 06, 09) our bad years (05, 10) and our kind of in the middle years (07, 08) with no correlation really existing between how we did the prior year and how we may do the next one.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by JensenS View Post
    I've said this several times, but we're just average freestyle wrestlers. We still put far too much emphasis on conditioning and not nearly enough on freestyle technique.

    In recent years we've had one top level wrestler concentrate exclusively on freestyle and Henry Cejudo went out and won an Olympic Gold Medal as a 21 year old.

    Until we have more guys concentrate and I mean really concentrate on freestyle we'll have our good years (04, 06, 09) our bad years (05, 10) and our kind of in the middle years (07, 08) with no correlation really existing between how we did the prior year and how we may do the next one.
    Can you give me some specific examples of guys who are conditioning too much and how you know what their specific training regimes are like?

  4. #4
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyholt View Post
    Can you give me some specific examples of guys who are conditioning too much and how you know what their specific training regimes are like?
    Holt - I know you train at the OTC, so I'm asking you this. How much time do our guys spend specifically on refining and learning technique versus time spent on strength and conditioning? I'm asking for more of a general ratio thing....

    The reason I ask this, is because I've read from those who've trained in Russia, that they spend almost all of their time drilling and wrestling and very little time (by comparison) running, biking, lifting, etc. Do you think that we might benefit from spending more time just wrestling and using that as our primary means of conditioning?

    I also can't remember the last time I saw a US freestyle wrestler throw anyone. Aside from some pathetic (often slipped) attempts at arm throws. It seems that all of our guys are very limited in their array of technique. Doesn't that make us easier to defend? I watch Russian nationals from the last few years and I see tons of throws from multiple guys, I also see an array of technique that makes us look almost remedial in comparison.

    Is there any promotion or instruction on throwing at the national level? Do the coaches encourage the guys to step outside of their comfort zone when training and master new and different techniques? Or are we just focused on mastering the technique we already know?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    Holt - I know you train at the OTC, so I'm asking you this. How much time do our guys spend specifically on refining and learning technique versus time spent on strength and conditioning? I'm asking for more of a general ratio thing....

    The reason I ask this, is because I've read from those who've trained in Russia, that they spend almost all of their time drilling and wrestling and very little time (by comparison) running, biking, lifting, etc. Do you think that we might benefit from spending more time just wrestling and using that as our primary means of conditioning?

    I also can't remember the last time I saw a US freestyle wrestler throw anyone. Aside from some pathetic (often slipped) attempts at arm throws. It seems that all of our guys are very limited in their array of technique. Doesn't that make us easier to defend? I watch Russian nationals from the last few years and I see tons of throws from multiple guys, I also see an array of technique that makes us look almost remedial in comparison.

    Is there any promotion or instruction on throwing at the national level? Do the coaches encourage the guys to step outside of their comfort zone when training and master new and different techniques? Or are we just focused on mastering the technique we already know?

    Judging by ktsoyev, Gatsalov and Makhov I think the Russians have been doing some weightlifting.

  6. #6
    Olympic Champ therick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by JudoWrestler View Post
    Judging by ktsoyev, Gatsalov and Makhov I think the Russians have been doing some weightlifting.
    Obviously they lift, but my question was more directed toward the amount of time spent focusing on weight training. The Russians are certainly strong, but they also appear to be well ahead of us in technique, strategy and tactics. Which in turn translates into being well ahead of us in medals and wins.

    I'm not all that well versed in Judo, but I've noticed some people on different boards commenting on the throw techniques by the Russians as often being based on Judo technique. Is this a correct observation?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by therick View Post
    Holt - I know you train at the OTC, so I'm asking you this. How much time do our guys spend specifically on refining and learning technique versus time spent on strength and conditioning? I'm asking for more of a general ratio thing....

    The reason I ask this, is because I've read from those who've trained in Russia, that they spend almost all of their time drilling and wrestling and very little time (by comparison) running, biking, lifting, etc. Do you think that we might benefit from spending more time just wrestling and using that as our primary means of conditioning?

    I also can't remember the last time I saw a US freestyle wrestler throw anyone. Aside from some pathetic (often slipped) attempts at arm throws. It seems that all of our guys are very limited in their array of technique. Doesn't that make us easier to defend? I watch Russian nationals from the last few years and I see tons of throws from multiple guys, I also see an array of technique that makes us look almost remedial in comparison.

    Is there any promotion or instruction on throwing at the national level? Do the coaches encourage the guys to step outside of their comfort zone when training and master new and different techniques? Or are we just focused on mastering the technique we already know?
    I spend alot of time with the freestyle team since I am rehabbing. I know what they do every day. I can tell you people are really, really, offbase about how Americans train. Freestyle has 11 practices a week. Only 3 of them are strength and conditioning based, and alot of guys do technique after they are done with the strength and conditioning. On those days, they alslo do wrestling based practices that afternoon. At wrestling practices, virtually no time is spent conditioning. about 80% of their practice is refining techniques, tactics, and strategies from different positions and scenarios in a match. Keep in mind, most European teams practics only 5-6 times a week.

  8. #8
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wtf

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyholt View Post
    I spend alot of time with the freestyle team since I am rehabbing. I know what they do every day. I can tell you people are really, really, offbase about how Americans train. Freestyle has 11 practices a week. Only 3 of them are strength and conditioning based, and alot of guys do technique after they are done with the strength and conditioning. On those days, they alslo do wrestling based practices that afternoon. At wrestling practices, virtually no time is spent conditioning. about 80% of their practice is refining techniques, tactics, and strategies from different positions and scenarios in a match. Keep in mind, most European teams practics only 5-6 times a week.
    Good to hear from someone on the inside.
    Do you have any of your own thoughts on what the US needs to change to once again be among the best in the world?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Wtf

    So then as a relative new fan of international wrestling I have to ask what has changed in the past 10 years?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    [D]on't let lack of knowledge impact your ability to post as if you are knowledgeable.

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