Schlottke

Can this happen:

"Smith defeated Brandon Kingsley – also a former USA Wrestling Triple Crown winner – in three periods; 1-0, 0-6, 1-0. Both wrestlers went 8-0."

Imagine winning the Stanley Cup because you outscored your opponent 1-0, 0-6, 1-0.

How on earth does anyone making these rules come up with this stuff?

The constant, dramatic, rule changes (cadets/juniors going from 1 long period, to three short periods, to weight classes separated by high school weights (Fargo Nationals), to the ball grab and independent period scoring... all in the last 10 years.. it's insane.

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vaisforlovers

exactly...these rules are a joke.

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arm-spin

Funny you mention the Stanley cup... yes, a team can win the SC if all their wins are close and all of their losses are one-sided. I bet Detroit outscored Pittsburg in this last year's SCF, but Pittsburg won... if you think of the 3 wrestling periods as mini-matches, it's the same concept.

Not that I like the constant rule changes, I think they're stupid. (I remember referees explaining rule changes to us as we were warming up for the National Championships- ridiculous!) However, I'm not too upset to see the occasional strange score.

arm-spin

A couple of other scoring situations (regardless of period format) that seem unfair.

Freestyle/greco: why is control and then exposure worth more than exposure and then control? Example: if a wrestler spins behind his opponent, then turns his opponent, he gets 1+2. If he exposes his opponent and then ends up in control (ie from a front head lock or a gutwrench from the tripod position he only gets 2, even though he still ends up in the takedown position. Fair?

Folkstyle: IMO excape points mess up the scoring. Wrestler A takes down wrestler B at the beginning of the beriod, rides him for say 45 seconds, and wrestler B escapes. Score is 2-1 A. Then B takes A down at the end of the period, rides him for say 5 seconds, but A doesn't escape because the period runs out. B wins the period 3-2 even though A arguablly demonstrates more control... come to think of it, I hate everything to do with escape points and riding time and all that. Grew up wrestling freestly andc an't make sense of it.

Schlottke

You make a couple good points in your second post.

In regards to the 'mini-matches'... the periods are no different than periods in hockey. If they are going to break a match into three 'mini matches' what stops them from turning the olympics into a takedown tournament in the future?

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quick_single

You mean 1+2 for the first scenario right? For the second, we need to understand that in Freestyle exposure is the name of the game not control, hence why takedowns are the lowest form of scoring. In the scenario you bring up, exposure occurred first and takes precedent. The exposure was the "takedown."

arm-spin

yes, I do q_s, I'll change it.

It just seems unfair that if exposure occurs first it's less total points than if exposure occurs second... The example I always remember is Daniel Igali's Olympic final, where he hits gut wrench from a tripod position and is given 2 pts and no more. Seems to me like it should be a 3 pointer in that situation for the sake of fairness.

Schlottke, for "in what other sport can this happen": tennis is the obvious example. MMA is scored round by round too, isn't it? I remember watching a Johny Hendriks fight where they were close for two rounds- Hendricks got a TD but no one did any ream damage- and the other guy smacked him around pretty badly in the 3rd. Hendricks still won 2 rounds to one.

All that said, I think I prefer the old format... just wanted to point out that the "rounds" scoring isn't unprecedented. As far as I know FILA has always had wierd rules, I saw some old matches on youtube that ended 10-10 or something and were won by tiebreak criteria. I don't think that's fair either.

cpwrestler

Actually gut-wrenches and front-headlocks from the tripod are actually supposed to be scored 3 points... Doesn't always happen though.

gutfirst

the new rules aren't perfect. but i'd rather watch matches following these rules than the straight 5 min when one guy scores 1 point and coasts or the 30 secs to over a minute of posturing prior to a chest to chest clinch.

arm-spin

I'm torn gutfirst. I think the rules from the 80's, at least as shown from quick_single's posted matches, are far superior to any recent rule changes. I think the new rules, on average, create more exciting bouts than the ones in the early 2000's which often ended 3-0 or, worse, 1-1 referee's decision after 9 minutes. However, the new rules do showcase some really, truly awful matches (ie 84 kg world finals this year) that wouldn't have been possible before.

I do like the push-out, and I don't the clinch the way it was when I was wrestling, at least in Canada... defensive guy got a chance to get set and a real takedown had to be scored before offensive guy got a point. In some international matches they let the offensive guy start almost in a double leg, or give out really chintzy points (watch the Dudaev/Batirov match on the good matches thread); that drives me crazy.

I didn't like the reverse lift greco rules at all- waaay to many 1-1 last-point-wins rounds. I'm not sure how I feel about the newest incarnation yet- maybe if FILA would put the damn worlds matches on Webtv already I could watch enough to get an idea. The world finals were decent, and the 74 and 120 kg matches were excellent.