Chin-under-Hook? Legal or Illegal?

[BruinBacker]

We have a wrestler in the novice ranks that has really learned to use that move very well. In each of the last 4 tournaments we have had him in, he has taken 1st place and never had a ref say a word to him or any of the coaching staff about it being an illegal move.

Today, in his first match, he pinned the kid using the chin-under hook. At the end of the match, the ref took the child aside and explained that he could have called the move illegal and not to do it again! He said it would have been a caution.

My question is this..... How do you teach your students or wrestlers to preform the Chin-Underhook? Do you teach them to sink the head tight and cup the chin, then snake the arm and apply leverage to the snaked arm to turn the opponent onto his back? OR do you teach all of the above except dont have them cup the chin, instead have an open hand with the thumb upwards under the chin?

Please let me know your thoughts on this. As it turns out, the ref NEVER cautioned ANY other wrestler and it is used at least 20 times on his mat that I saw today. I tried to find any ruling in the Oklahoma rule book, but all it would talk about is wrenching of the neck or back of the neck and if you DO grab the chin, it must be followed immediatly by a turning motion to move the player to his back.

Also, does anyone have an online link to the Oklahoma Wrestling Rules 2008?

Thanks much.

[mhoncho]

The move is legal as long as you don't wrench the neck or get across his throat. They will also call it illegal if your underhook arm goes beyond 90 degrees on the opponents back.

This can be a pretty effective move at that level but I would try to get him to avoid using it as his go to move. With the older/stronger wrestlers the counter to that move is better than the move. It's good to be able to use it if you're down by 5 or need a pin to win but I wouldn't let any of my wrestlers use that as their primary move.

[HaydenSammak]

There's nothing Illegal about a chin and underhook as long as its done properly. Think of it like the difference between a good throw and a slam. There's a very fine line between a good throw and an illegal one, same with an arm bar, the best ones are just short of being illegal.

What is the counter to a chin and underhook by the way?

[clmetal]

There's nothing Illegal about a chin and underhook as long as its done properly. Think of it like the difference between a good throw and a slam. There's a very fine line between a good throw and an illegal one, same with an arm bar, the best ones are just short of being illegal.

What is the counter to a chin and underhook by the way?

I assume you are describing what we call a cement mixer (I've heard it called a tornado and snake).

You clamp down on the arm underhooking you and you look up toward the arm grabbing your chin and you peel it and come at him with a duck-under type finish. If you are on your belly, it's harder to do that and should be trying to build a base at the same time

[accadaccakid]

no it's not a cement mixer, its a setup to a cement mixer, we call it a crusher. It's thrown the opposite direction of a cement mixer and is a much simpler move. To prevent it you pretty much just resist it. Me and my friends lived off "the crusher" freshman year but as we've wrestled better guys its not a move we use anymore. In terms of it being illegal or not i'd assume the amount of twisting on the neck is what would cause the ref to stop it. Like alot of moves how illegal it looks will determine whether the ref calls it or not. You should have just asked the ref what he saw.

[mhoncho]

What is the counter to a chin and underhook by the way?

For the younger wrestlers I like to have them lock around their body, get their head to the outside and take them directly to their back. Older/stronger kids can clamp down on the underhook and use that to set up their own takedown.

[clmetal]

no it's not a cement mixer, its a setup to a cement mixer, we call it a crusher. It's thrown the opposite direction of a cement mixer and is a much simpler move. To prevent it you pretty much just resist it. Me and my friends lived off "the crusher" freshman year but as we've wrestled better guys its not a move we use anymore. In terms of it being illegal or not i'd assume the amount of twisting on the neck is what would cause the ref to stop it. Like alot of moves how illegal it looks will determine whether the ref calls it or not. You should have just asked the ref what he saw.

We call a cement mixer where you drive him with the underhook. Purler calls that a snake and calls a cement mixer where you pull on the chin rather than drive him over with the underhook. (I was answering on what we call a cement mixer if that is what he is talking about)