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Thread: A Rant on Race

  1. #19

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    I think we are getting there, Chance. Sometimes it seems like progress is slow. IMO, Obama's candidacy is a chance to measure where we stand.
    "All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind." -- Abraham Lincoln

  2. #20

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I was just looking at the topic, African American Wrestlers at Oklahoma State, and it got me to thinking how I dislike the term African American or Afro-American. Even though the terms Afro- or African refer to a continent of origin, they are used to mean ?Black? (or ?black? ? I?m never sure if I should capitalize it), which is a race. People aren?t Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, or Afro-Americans unless they hold dual citizenship. They are all Americans. They may be Black, Hispanic, Oriental, Caucasian or whatever, but their race or ethnic heritage is a whole different issue from their nationality. Maybe I?m suffering from politically correct overload, but I don?t think black is a disrespectful term, any more than white is. If I?m wrong, then I apologize, but what would be the Black equivalent of Caucasian?

    I?m reminded of many years ago when I was watching the NCAA Div. III Nationals on TV. The announcer was describing a match and said something like, ?They are both wearing purple singlets, but Smith is wearing a kneepad and Jones has the yellow headgear.? I wondered why he didn?t simply say, ?Smith is black and Jones is white.? What would have been offensive about that? Actually, at the time I thought, and still do, that it was more offensive to conspicuously avoid saying that Smith was black, as if it were an insult.
    Spider,

    If I may weigh in...
    > RE sensitivity about IDing black and white wrestlers: I have footage of the 1962 NCAA 191 pound title match between Wayne Baughman of the Oklahoma Sooners vs Joe James of the Oklahoma State Cowboys. the first black varsity wrestler at the Stillwater school. On the title card before the match (the film is silent, and black-and-white), it tries to help the viewer differeniate the two wrestlers with something about SHOE color (ie "James with dark shoes"). In the interests of clarity, it would have been so much easier and more honest to say, "Baughman's the white guy, James is black" -- but that would not be politically correct. Maybe "Baughman's the skinny guy, James is the big muscular guy" (which was true).

    > Speaking of old black-and-white films... I've seen the ABC "Wide World of Sports" footage of the 1964 NCAA heavyweight finals between Joe James and Bob Billberg of Minnesota State at Moorhead. (Again, black-and-white film, but with sound.) The main announcer was ABC's Bill Flemming; the "color" announcer was none other than Cliff Keen. He repeatedly refered to James with the word "boy" -- "the boy from Oklahoma State" "he's a big boy" -- which I'm sure was completely innocent -- no different than if he had referred to Billberg as "the boy from Minnesota State" -- but something about calling a 21-22-year-old, 240-pound black man a "boy" makes the politically-correct part of me cringe.

    > When working on my Black History article for RevWrestling, I wrestled with how to refer to the wrestlers who served as pioneers in our sport. I felt like I was having to mix things up by using descriptors "African-American", "black" and "of color" just to make it a bit more interesting to read.

    Mark

  3. #21

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Lets not pretend like its all great. Black people were slaves. Irish and Polish were not!
    Having seen Bonnie's son's team, I have to agree. They are a gorgeous melting pot!

    Spider, I can't speak for a group that I'm not a part of, but I've never had a black friend who was offended by the word black. I am not offended by the word white. At the same time, my background is Italian, Polish and German, and I'd prefer that my ethnicity is not boiled down to a color. I'm quite proud of my background.

    Big, don't forget history. Though the Irish were not put in chains, three million people either died or left Ireland (and most headed to the US) during the Great Potato Famine, when huge supplies of food were rotting in English storehouses. A huge group of Poles who came to this country were fleeing from Nazi Germany, or the occupation by your mother country. Nobody came to this country because it was so great at home. Though not forced by slave traders, they were forced by severe economic and political circumstances.

  4. #22
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    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Though not forced by slave traders, they were forced by severe economic and political circumstances.

    But none other than African americans were FORCED to come to America specifically. Irish and Polish people WANTED to come to America. Blacks were brought in chains. BIG difference.

  5. #23

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Oh, and one last thing, one of the sensitivities in using race as an identifier is that people often can do it unnecessarily. My aunts do this all the time. They'll tell a story where identifying race is not needed, yet they'll say "And then this black woman..." or "then this Mexican man..." (never Latinos, never Mexican-American, but whatever). AP has style guidelines to keep reporters from using this practice because it was happening all the time.

  6. #24

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Though not forced by slave traders, they were forced by severe economic and political circumstances.

    But none other than African americans were FORCED to come to America specifically. Irish and Polish people WANTED to come to America. Blacks were brought in chains. BIG difference.
    Thank you for teaching me about the history of my country.

    By the way, what I said above is what my professor of black studies taught me in college. But way to not address some of the atrocities your country did to Poland!

  7. #25
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    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Poland burned Moscow. I know my country's history. Poles got what they deserved.

  8. #26

    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    Wow. I have a whole new understanding on your bias and love of country that YOUR FAMILY LEFT. Unbelievable.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: A Rant on Race

    My family didn't ask me.

    Here is a bit of information. Russians disliked Poles ever since Poland tried to take over Russia:

    In 1609 Poland intervened into Russian affairs officially, captured Shuisky, and occupied the Kremlin. A group of Russian boyars signed in 1610 a treaty of peace, recognising Ladislaus IV of Poland, son of Polish king Sigismund III Vasa, as tsar. In 1611, False Dmitriy III appeared in the Swedish-occupied territories, but was soon apprehended and executed. The Polish presence led to a patriotic revival among the Russians, and a volunteer army, financed by the Stroganov merchants and blessed by the Orthodox Church, was formed in Nizhny Novgorod and, led by Prince Dmitry Pozharsky and Kuzma Minin, drove the Poles out of the Kremlin. In 1613 a zemsky sobor proclaimed the boyar Mikhail Romanov as tsar, beginning the 300-year reign of the Romanov family.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsardom_of_Russia

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