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Thread: America is on a clear path to destruction

  1. #19
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Good for you Spider!

    That is the thing. Participation in activities should be encouraged for the sake of the enjoyment of performance and not to get big bucks. Participation should be the ideal end and not the means to an end.

    In any case, I am not talking about professional sports here. Kids, adults and even senior citizens can all find to spend more time on non-materialitc activities rather than working more to buy a house, to buy a new car, to take an expensive vacation and so on.

    Cut out constant advertising of goods and that alone will be a big start. Have a President talk about the need to involve people in non-materialistc activities.

  2. #20
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    I don't think he actually meant to criticize progress, but Big's original argument here was that, within capitalism, is an inherent need to grow and accumulate. I think this was Marx's idea. For corporations, it means they will always seek to grow, irrespective of any effect that continued growth might have on society (think, e.g., of Coca-Cola, or Philip Morris).

    For individuals, this means not being satisfied with ample food, shelter and clothing but seeking more goods, irrespective of whether they are rational or healthy. Economist Thorstein Veblen called this conspicuous consumption. Lo and behold, here is an example in today's news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071101/...illionaires_dc Note comment that new millionaires need to find a way to express their affluence.

    This doesn't mean everyone will consume over and above their needs, but that it the nature of a capitalistic society. I agree with Big, we should strive to be a lot less materialistic--and would be a healthier society if we were.

  3. #21
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Yes, but we do have to support ourselves in a comfortable manner. Comfortable means different things to different people. As Chris Rock said when demonstrating the difference between rich and wealthy, "If Bill Gates woke up one morning with Oprah's money, he's jump out a window."

    There must be incentives to better oneself because people do appreciate luxuries and creature comforts and need a reason to work to their full potential in order to best serve themselves and society. I stand by my position that capitalism, in it's ideal form, not with greed and disregard for people and planet, is the best system.

    And I agree entirely that self-enrichment should be the main reward for participating in any activity - just ask any wrestler.
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  4. #22
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Any wrestler will tell you the experience of participating and winning in wrestling and developing strong physical and mental qualities through sport are worth much more than big bucks.

  5. #23
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    I never said people should not work to support themselves. What I said was basing your whole life on work and acquirement of goods is not the right way to live.

    Oh and I would not put so much stock in Bill Gates achievements. If not him, someone else would achieve all the things that he did. Perhaps 5 years later but it would definitely happen without him.

    And the fact that Bill Gates would kill himself just because he lost money tells me all about the pathetic personality he has. Or maybe that's Chris Rock's personality. That is more likely.
    Last edited by Big; 11-01-2007 at 02:03 PM.

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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Bulimia or anorexia, alcohol and drug abuse, obesity (and all its related diseases), tobacco abuse, compulsive gambling, sexual disorders, premature tooth decay. Why didn't native Americans (this is a thread about America) suffer from these problems in yesteryear?
    Last edited by matclone; 11-01-2007 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #25
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    "I never said people should not work to support themselves. What I said was basing your whole life on work and acquirement of goods is not the right way to live."

    I completely agree.

    "Oh and I would not put so much stock in Bill Gates achievements. If not him, someone else would achieve all the things that he did. Perhaps 5 years later but it would definitely happen without him."

    Maybe, but it would be another highly intelligent, hard working person.

    "And the fact that Bill Gates would kill himself just because he lost money tells me all about the pathetic personality he has. Or maybe that's Chris Rock's personality. That is more likely."

    It was just a joke to show the difference between rich people (some blacks) and wealthy people (always white). Another example he gave was, "Shaq is rich; the white guy who signs Shaq's check is wealthy." In fact, Bill Gates seems to live an unobtrusive lifestyle and give very sarge sums to charity.
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  8. #26
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Quote Originally Posted by matclone View Post
    Bulimia or anorexia, alcohol and drug abuse, obesity (and all its related diseases), tobacco abuse, compulsive gambling, sexual disorders, premature tooth decay. Why didn't native Americans (this is a thread about America) suffer from these problems in yesteryear?
    A more complex society gives rise to more complex problems. I'd still rather live my current life than that of a native American of 3 or 400 years ago (although if he had the choice, he probably wouldn't want to trade places with me either).
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  9. #27
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    Default Re: America is on a clear path to destruction

    Spider,

    Sometimes what is best for you or for other people for that matter (short term) might not be better for the planet and humanity as a whole. I am sure you are familiar with many situations when what is good for one can hurt many others.

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