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Thread: Will Obama be held accountable?

  1. #46
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Ban this is directly out of the report you posted "The effects of ARRA on output peaked in the first half
    of 2010 and have since diminished, CBO estimates.
    The effects of ARRA on employment are estimated to lag
    slightly behind the effects on output; CBO estimates that
    the employment effects began to wane at the end of 2010
    and continued to do so throughout 2011". Now it also said that things might have been worse if the stimulus had not happened. The fact is they spent the money on the wrong things and it did not have the desired effect. Also when it comes to the republicans accepting money I agree if you didnt want the stimulus then dont take the money, or at the least only accept the money if you can use it in a way that you were lobbying for. I also agree that if you are a dem. and are agains the bush tax cuts then dont take the tax cut, pay up sucker. If your against capital gains, then Kerry better be paying tax on all of his invesments, I doubt he does..

    Also when Maddow claims that Obamacare WILL bring costs under control she is sharing her opinion and passing it off as fact. She has no idea what will happen, as you said.

  2. #47

    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I don't know how much influence the VP has, but the selection of Ryan demonstrates to me Romney's true position on these issues. I'm uncomfortable with people in the white house whose social philosophy is so different from mine, and from what I feel should be the philosophy of our leaders and our country. Frankly, I don't think either candidate can drastically turn around the economy - it will gradually correct itself regardless of who is elected.
    To be sure you understand, and I' m sure you already do, the selection of Ryan was purely " political". Ryan is said to be a staunch conservative. Therefore, it must be true! Romney is said to be too liberal from a conservative point of view. So by picking someone who dared make an actual budget proposal, that must mean that he hates gays. Don' t beleive all that you hear. Ryan is a normal guy who couldn't care less about someone's gayness.

    You always say that you're not qualified to talk politics, yet you do. If you don' t feel qualified then take the time to look stuff up. You're smart enough to hash out the bullcrap. I also think you will find it entertaining and enlightening.

  3. #48
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    To be sure you understand, and I' m sure you already do, the selection of Ryan was purely " political". Ryan is said to be a staunch conservative. Therefore, it must be true! Romney is said to be too liberal from a conservative point of view. So by picking someone who dared make an actual budget proposal, that must mean that he hates gays. Don' t beleive all that you hear. Ryan is a normal guy who couldn't care less about someone's gayness.

    You always say that you're not qualified to talk politics, yet you do. If you don' t feel qualified then take the time to look stuff up. You're smart enough to hash out the bullcrap. I also think you will find it entertaining and enlightening.
    Since we all vote, or are eligible to vote, we can all express our political opinions. Some are well researched and some are gut feelings or media influenced. I fall into the latter category. I consider myself fairly intelligent, if not well informed (probably not). I guess my perspective is that of the typical voter who gets his information from the mass media, evaluates the information through the lens of his own biases, then tries to decide which candidate represents what he feels is best for the country. Usually, this isn't a clear choice, as each party has some positions with which he agrees and some with which he doesn't. This is me. While it may be a cliche, I consider myself an economic conservative, but a social liberal. I reject extremism from either side, as they are usually narrow minded positions which reject opposing views out of hand, even if some of them have some merit. I think that this is the Republican reaction to Obamacare.

    If I take the time to look stuff up (what stuff?), will it change my opinion or will I simply find that each side puts their own spin on things?
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  4. #49

    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban this is directly out of the report you posted "The effects of ARRA on output peaked in the first half
    of 2010 and have since diminished, CBO estimates.
    The effects of ARRA on employment are estimated to lag
    slightly behind the effects on output; CBO estimates that
    the employment effects began to wane at the end of 2010
    and continued to do so throughout 2011".
    And this concludes the paragraph that you copied:

    "Still, CBO estimates that, compared with what would have occurred otherwise, in 2012 ARRA will:
    • Raise real GDP by between 0.1 percent and 0.8 percent, and
    • Increase the number of FTE jobs by between 0.2 million and 1.3 million."
    As I said, the economy IS improving, albeit slowly and to the obvious dismay of regressives, who are sworn to see our President and America fail. THAT is something I never dreamed I'd see in my lifetime where we get so politically divided that people actually HOPE that leaders fail, just so people can say, "See, I told you he'd screw things up!"
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  5. #50

    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    So by picking someone who dared make an actual budget proposal, that must mean that he hates gays. Don' t beleive all that you hear. Ryan is a normal guy who couldn't care less about someone's gayness.
    Yes, he seems to have a splendeed record of voting for gay civil rights!

    Paul Ryan on the Issues
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  6. #51

    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    If I take the time to look stuff up (what stuff?), will it change my opinion or will I simply find that each side puts their own spin on things?
    It's what we call the Knowledge Information Paradox, in that we live in a time today with more information available to us than any other time, yet (1) it's harder to keep up with all of the information and (2) it's harder to decipher what is fact and fiction.

    If you think about it, we can make ANYTHING real on the internet. All you need is someone to make the claim in a story and a legion of people who parrots this position over and over again. Or, as Goebbels (sp?) called it, "the big lie."
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  7. #52
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    And this concludes the paragraph that you copied:

    "Still, CBO estimates that, compared with what would have occurred otherwise, in 2012 ARRA will:
    • Raise real GDP by between 0.1 percent and 0.8 percent, and
    • Increase the number of FTE jobs by between 0.2 million and 1.3 million."
    As I said, the economy IS improving, albeit slowly and to the obvious dismay of regressives, who are sworn to see our President and America fail. THAT is something I never dreamed I'd see in my lifetime where we get so politically divided that people actually HOPE that leaders fail, just so people can say, "See, I told you he'd screw things up!"
    I don't HOpe he fails he just has. You have to take into account people who have list their job and are no longer looking for work or applying for unemployment because they are not counted in the numbers. Also there is a big difference between "wil" and "did". What did it do is what I showed, you showed what it could possibly do, and I duos reference what you said in my post. The fact is that it did not work, it did not have the desired effect and I believe its because they did not spend the money in the right way.

  8. #53

    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    I don't HOpe he fails he just has. You have to take into account people who have list their job and are no longer looking for work or applying for unemployment because they are not counted in the numbers. Also there is a big difference between "wil" and "did". What did it do is what I showed, you showed what it could possibly do, and I duos reference what you said in my post. The fact is that it did not work, it did not have the desired effect and I believe its because they did not spend the money in the right way.
    We've been over this before 21,007 times, but the unemployment rate has NEVER measured those not seeking work, or those out of the work force for an extended period of time. That isn't new. So, yes, of course, the unemployment rate is higher than what is measured. It's been that way since day one. BUT, it is gradually going down from it's peak. Good news, eh?

    And, yes, the stimulus worked. The economy is steadily improving, jobs were created from it, and republicans all across the land LOVED it and took credit for it!
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  9. #54
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Obama be held accountable?

    What jobs today are directly attributed to the stimulus? What growth in our GDP is directly tied to it? Surely you aren't banking on green energy.

    I will say this, if all of the money had gone to infrastructure improvements then I would have been for the stimulus, because those projects would have not only improved our nation and created jobs that lasted years, helping local and federal economies. I dont think that anyone would dispute this.

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