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Thread: Dems oppose state voting laws

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    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Dems oppose state voting laws

    Question. Why would anyone in good faith, oppose a requirement to show ID in order to vote?

    GOP Push to Tighten State Voting Laws Prompts Dem Backlash - FoxNews.com
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    That article frames it like Democrats want people to be able to vote without showing their ID and that's really not what the fight has been over. For a long time, Repubs have pushed for tightening the window on early voting (as mentioned in article) but primarily on making registration increasingly difficult. Unfortunately, many Americans aren't motivated enough to vote if it's not easy to do. Making it harder to register hurts Democrats in close elections because less young people will have registered to vote. I don't think this issue makes either party look that bad, they're both looking for an edge here to increase their chances. Voter fraud is completely overblown and to me just seems like both parties are trying to score a political point on a minor issue.

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    National Finalist leglace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    But why oppose a req'mt for ID. I know that voter fraud could have made a huge difference in the Minnesota senate race.
    I pictured you as that guy Gaylord in Showboat, passing up taxis to walk because he's broke and playing it off as if it's the doctor's advice. - Clmetal

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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    They oppose the requirement for ID because it gets them the illegal vote, or at least that is teh deal here in the west. The dems know if they dont get that vote the race becomes tighter. It is not hard to obtain an ID card to vote.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    They oppose the requirement for ID because it gets them the illegal vote, or at least that is teh deal here in the west. The dems know if they dont get that vote the race becomes tighter. It is not hard to obtain an ID card to vote.
    Do you have any evidence to back up this blanket statement?? I seriously doubt it. I've heard Beck and others rambling on about illegals voting in droves, but they've yet to back it up with a shred of evidence. I'll be surprised if you come back with a single example, though a single case or two wouldn't be impressive in a country of over 300 million anyway. 11% of eligible voters do not have a government-issued ID - mostly seniors, racial minorities, students and low-income voters. As FOX News would put it, here's "the other side" of this issue. Sixteen Senators Ask DOJ To Investigate Potentially Illegal State Voter Disenfranchisement Laws | ThinkProgress

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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    This is from the Government Accountability Office gao.gov from 2005

    ? a federal jury administrator in one U.S. district court estimated that 1 to
    3 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 30,000 over 2 years (about
    300 to 900 people) said they were not U.S. citizens;
    ? a federal jury administrator in a second U.S. district court estimated
    that less than 1 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 35,000 names
    each month (less than 350 people) said they were not U.S. citizens;
    ? a federal jury administrator in a third U.S. district court estimated that
    about 150 people out of a jury pool of 95,000 names over 2 years said
    they were not U.S. citizens; and
    46

    While the numbers are small they only represent those who chose to admit they were illegal. It is is very easy to get a gov. ID. If you can get WIC or Food stamps then you can get an ID. If you have to make it to the hospital or pick up prescriptions every week then you can get an ID. By the way that web site you posted seems very mainstream and reputable, no bias at all. There is no good reason to not require photo gov. id's to vote, not one. The only reason you would not want to have this law is to allow those people who should be voting to continue to be allowed to vote.

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    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    I also like the way you put in requirements of proof, very nice. Must be more than two cases. really. But as you can see that is evidence whether or not you want to admit it or not and it is from a reliable neutral source.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    Personally, I evaluate an article on its individual merits (in this case the links and evidence provided therein). I don't automatically dismiss something written by Fox News or Heritage Foundation just because they can be biased. Your evidence seems to prove that there are illegal citizens in this country who have been called for jury duty... how does that prove the extent of voter fraud that you were suggesting earlier? "If you can get WIC or food stamps then you can get an ID" implies that the 11% of eligible voters without government-issued ID's are all poor, lazy freeloaders - nice. How much did you really look into this before making your assumptions? There are valid reasons why 11-12% of eligible voters don't have these ID's that go far beyond laziness.

    "Although most Americans have government-issued photo ID, studies show that as many as 12% of eligible voters nationwide do not; the percentage is even higher for seniors, people of color, people with disabilities, low-income voters, and students. Many of those citizens find it hard to get such IDs, because the underlying documentation (the ID one needs to get ID) is often difficult to come by."
    Voter ID | Brennan Center for Justice

    Even if you reject that finding (though it would be nice if you could provide some actual relevant evidence that the 11-12% don't have difficult acquiring ID beyond your personal intuition), it's still the case that the push for tighter voter ID requirements is a potential violation of the Voting Rights Act.

    Here's a detailed report on how claims of voter fraud are completely overblown, one of many: http://brennan.3cdn.net/e20e4210db07..._wcm6ib0hl.pdf
    I would be interested to see a detailed report arguing the opposite...

  9. #9
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dems oppose state voting laws

    The study was about elections and voting. What do voting and jury duty have in common? Jury Duty rolls are compiled off of voter registration files.

    If they passed a law that required photo id to be used then I would assume that they would or could find a way to accommodate those who simply for some reason do not have the ability to get an ID, I am sure it can be done. Now it might require that those people have to do a little work in order to get that ID then we would know the real answer. Is it not the requirement of a College to see a state ID before enrolling a student, I think it is. I was making no assumptions I was pointing out based on the articles list of people that if you are doing the things I mentioned then you should already have an ID or a means of identifying yourself and should be able to get the required ID to vote, If you cant then yes it is because you are lazy.

    Dont you think that it is a little important to be able to verify who people say they are. Or should people just be allowed to claim they are someone and we just go with it. In that case I am Barack Obama President of the United States, dont ask me to verify that just take my word for it.

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