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Thread: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

  1. #10

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Hi Quinn14,

    I'm in agreement with the reasoning of the majority opinion. The police has every right and obligation to complete their investigation of a 9-1-1 call stemming from a DV case. Whether the male wants them to enter the house doesn't carry too much weight, if that's where the other party is the po po has the right to enter to confirm she isn't harmed, etc. She has standing in the house too, not only the male. According to the opinion she did not object to their entry but nor did she expressly invite them in. That's probably why there was a 3-2 decision. Reasonable people may disagree on this and I understand the desenting judges feelings.

    I think I mghit have handled it differently but it depends on the circumstances. However if I decided I needed to enter the house to check on her and discuss the incident and felt I had legal grounds I would do so and he'd be taken to jail if he tried to stop me. Not much different than the way this turned out. I think I could have gotten her to come outside or found a way to articulate my entry that would easily carry me through court.

    I am less than qualified to say this, but I wasn't impressed with either opinion to tell you the truth. Neither were compelling and unless I missed it they gave few citations to bolster their opinions.

  2. #11
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    In this instance I agree with the way the police handled the situation as the wife made a 911 call-the thing which disturbs me is this ruling just puts us in line with surrounding states where police can come in to your house for any reason .
    You know, I think I would rather be a man than a god . We don't need anyone to believe in us. We just keep going anyhow. It's what we do.

  3. #12
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Quote Originally Posted by r.payton@att.net View Post
    . . . the thing which disturbs me is this ruling just puts us in line with surrounding states where police can come in to your house for any reason .
    I haven't read the ruling, but I've read the thread. It seems to me that the ruling doesn't allow police to enter a home without a valid reason, it just prevents the homeowner from keeping them out. If they enter unlawfully, they will still be held accountable after the fact.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  4. #13
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    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Could a person/family protect themselves and property by posting a sign large enough for all to see on your front & back doors that says, "If I do not invite you in or you don't have a warrant I Will Protect Myself And Shoot You"

  5. #14

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tpay View Post
    Could a person/family protect themselves and property by posting a sign large enough for all to see on your front & back doors that says, "If I do not invite you in or you don't have a warrant I Will Protect Myself And Shoot You"
    Yes you can post pretty much any sign you want but that does not grant you the authority to act on it. I am not an attorney but that sign could clearly be used against you if you did shoot someone without proper justification. It could also haunt you in a civil case where the burden of proof is much lower than criminal cases.

    The general rule is that the government may not enter a dwelling except under some jealously guarded exceptions. However the courts tend to give much latitude to the police to check the welfare of people in DV cases. I have made many warrantless entries into homes and made arrests. I only lost one motion to suppress hearing (1538.5 pc in CA) and it had nothing to do with an illegal entry. Most police officers know where the lines are drawn and stay within them but mistake are made...they are human.

    I think the judges here are trying to imply that there is a place to challenge the government's action and it shouldn't be with a violent confrontation at the door. This guy is learning the hard way. I used to teach Constituional law with an emphasis in search and seizure (4th Amendment) in advanced officer training classes. I've been away from it for some time but this area of law moves changes slowly.

  6. #15

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    A more controversial and worthwhile topic is the recent Tucson shooting. I'm surprised a thread hasn't been made of that.

  7. #16

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pm01 View Post
    A more controversial and worthwhile topic is the recent Tucson shooting. I'm surprised a thread hasn't been made of that.
    I think everyone knows he should just be shot. I would be suprised if anyone (liberals, conservatives....ect.) wouldn't crack a smile to read his obituary. I hope hope he's burried right next to the judge.

  8. #17

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Hi Quinn, I'm sorry I should have been more specific. Are you talking about Loughner? If not could you pls tell me? I was referring to this:

    Tucson SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Marine Veteran 60 Times - ABC News

  9. #18

    Default Re: 4th Ammendment demonstration-thoughts ?

    Yes. I was referring to Loughner. Hadn't even heard of the other story. Sorry for the confusion, but my tv doesn't get turned on as often in the summer. Guess I should turn off Kristofferson and tune in to the news more. Nahhhhh!

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