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Thread: The Science Religion Conflict

  1. #1

    Default The Science Religion Conflict

    Many of you may have read the thread that KR1963 and myself were involved in. I respected his religious beliefs throughout but questions his attempts to try to claim that his religious practices met the definition of science. I would like to discuss the conflict between applying religious beliefs and science. As a starter I offer the following:

    http://mwillett.org/atheism/relsci.htm

    The most essential conflict between science and religion is not in their conclusions ? such as evolution, the heliocentric solar system, or the origin of disease ? but in their ways of arriving at their conclusions. The fundamental disagreement is in how, rather than in what.
    Religion relies on authority ? from a person, book, or tradition ? and its Truth is supposed to be universal and eternal. But in science, the authority is in the evidence and reasoning, which are always open to challenge; so science's truth is relative and tentative.
    A scientific investigation starts with a question, and tries to reach a conclusion by finding evidence and applying reason. A theological investigation, though, starts with a conclusion, and tries to wiggle around any impediments of evidence and logic in order to justify that conclusion.
    To superstitious people, things not understood might be assigned to the realm of supernatural whims, which to a scientist represents a very pessimistic outlook. But as things that were once not understood become understood, this realm gets smaller and smaller. For example, most of us no longer attribute bad weather and disease to curses, mental disease to possession by devils, or earthquakes, storms, and eclipses to angry gods.
    An interesting item along this line is that Isaac Newton had a small deficiency between his calculations of the motions of planets and the actual observations, so he invoked the hand of God. But a century later the great mathematician Laplace made better calculations with Newton's own equations and showed that there was no such deficiency.
    Strangely, although religious people nowadays don't usually blame the god for illnesses and other catastrophes, they tend to credit the god for any relief from these!
    It's true that many intelligent people embrace both science and religion. They seem to compartmentalize their thinking; it's as if they use different parts of the mind for science and religion, with hardly any interconnection between those parts. They adopt the comfortable myth that there isn't, or shouldn't be, a conflict between science and religion.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Coachsparky,

    I have never spoke of my personal spiritual beliefs online and have no plans to do so.

    I'm wondering if you'd seen the following video and what you thought. It might not fit your topic perfectly and I will delete my post if you feel it's a bit of a hijack.

    I have no intention to insult anyone's beliefs. As I said I have never mentioned mine. It is just one person's opinion, not mine. What are your thoughts?


  3. #3
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Coach Sparky,

    I don't entirely agree with your quotation. Here's my take: In prehistoric times, man sought to understand his world. Science and religion were pretty much the same thing, since there was little technology, and much of what was observed was only explicable by attributing it to higher powers. As technology evolved, science became more able to understand the true nature of the universe and the laws that govern it. When scientific proof, or at least the best theories based upon observation and technology, contradicted religious teachings, conflict arose. The problem is that religion has continued to try to answer scientific questions such as creation, evolution, etc.

    Religion and science are two entirely different disciplines. Religion relies on faith as its foundation, not proof. If proof of God were found, there would be no need for faith and religion would simply become one of the sciences like botany. Science relies on observable facts. It would be absurd for the scientific community to accept a theory on faith.

    Religion and science now serve to answer different questions, and when they remain in their own realm, no conflict need arise. Science answers the question of how the physical word/universe works. Religion answers the metaphysical questions of man's purpose on earth, the existence of an immortal soul, and what happens after death. Science will never prove or disprove the existence of God and religion will never explain the true nature of the atom.

    To me, science and religion can easily coexist as long as neither one tries to get involved in the other's business.
    Atrophy: what you get when you win atournament.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    That is a pretty cool video, pm. I noticed at just after the 11min mark, the dude said something that I have tried to say before. The fact that what scientists from earlier generations used to believe, is now known to be not true. I am equally sure that generations from now, many things that we "believe" to be true will be scientificly (how do you spell that?) proven false. To me, many scientists seem to behave in the exact same way as the religious people that they claim are behaving illogically. There are many scientific discoveries that can't be refuted (gravity, for instance), but there are many more that can be (man-made global warming). When scientists say that something is settled science, that is a key for me to start doubting. It is usually because they are paid to come to a conclusion, which goes directly against why they became scientists in the first place.

    With that said, there are just as many humble, honest scientists in this world as their are arrogant, money-grabbing scientists. So I don't mean to try and paint them all as bad. I just think that a lot of times they could learn something, themselves, if they listened instead of talk.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Coach Sparky,

    I don't entirely agree with your quotation. Here's my take: In prehistoric times, man sought to understand his world. Science and religion were pretty much the same thing, since there was little technology, and much of what was observed was only explicable by attributing it to higher powers. As technology evolved, science became more able to understand the true nature of the universe and the laws that govern it. When scientific proof, or at least the best theories based upon observation and technology, contradicted religious teachings, conflict arose. The problem is that religion has continued to try to answer scientific questions such as creation, evolution, etc.

    Religion and science are two entirely different disciplines. Religion relies on faith as its foundation, not proof. If proof of God were found, there would be no need for faith and religion would simply become one of the sciences like botany. Science relies on observable facts. It would be absurd for the scientific community to accept a theory on faith.

    Religion and science now serve to answer different questions, and when they remain in their own realm, no conflict need arise. Science answers the question of how the physical word/universe works. Religion answers the metaphysical questions of man's purpose on earth, the existence of an immortal soul, and what happens after death. Science will never prove or disprove the existence of God and religion will never explain the true nature of the atom.

    To me, science and religion can easily coexist as long as neither one tries to get involved in the other's business.
    Well said.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Scientifically - now write it twenty times on the board so that it is impressed to your memory.

    R.I.P. Cyrano and Roxanne.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by M Richardson View Post
    Scientifically - now write it twenty times on the board so that it is impressed to your memory.
    Lol. That is how I had it spelled at first, but it didn't look right.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Well said, Spider.

    I find it odd, coachsparky, that you are a religious man yourself, but seem quite negatively disposed towards religion in a lot of your posts.

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Science Religion Conflict

    Quote Originally Posted by M Richardson View Post
    Scientifically - now write it twenty times on the board so that it is impressed to your memory.
    Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically, Scientifically.

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