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Thread: Hooray euro socialism

  1. #19
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    The fact is that medicare does not work in a financial sense, it runs a huge deficit. I agree Ground that the playing field should be level and all business should have the opportunity to grow. When we look at the current landscape all of the large corporation like walmart and Home Depot were once small stores who expanded. The people have made a choice, they like the idea of a small mom and pop but they actually want to shop at Best Buy.

    We dont need to eliminate every social program but we cant go down the same road as europe. Perhaps we should get back to the time when parents lived with their kids when they got older and families stuck together, in order to support each other. That might do some good.

  2. #20
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    ...Government health care???? Obama's health care reform doesn't come close to resembling Canadian or some European "government health care" systems. Our system was (and probably still is) on track to go over a cliff in the near future. Something needs to be done. But when someone has the balls to say that, you guys spin it to make them look like liberal, socialist kooks.

    You free markets guys have it all figured out. Let big pharma and the health insurance mega corporations have their lobbyist save the day. Anything else is Socialism or Communism in your eyes.

    Look, I'm all for a free market - on a level playing field. The government should be the referee and set up fair and reasonable regulations that are in the best interest of our country/economy. If big business is allowed, they will tilt the field and exploit the system. That's what they are supposed to do. They only exist to make a profit.

    Take a look who's winning in the current environment. Corporations are setting record profits, while the common man is getting curb stomped. Yet you guys spin any attempt to level the field as some socialist wacko coup.

    Turn your radio dial already. You owe it to your self.
    Nice Rant G&P...
    Ireland had some boom years and greatly expanded its social programs now that the economy has tanked they cannot support all of programs that were started. This is more of an indictment of over reaching during good times and not preparing for the down times than showing that socialism cannot work on any level and capitalism works all the time.

    There have been countries that have gone bankrupt for other reasons other than socialism. Iceland did just a few years ago as a result of over-reliance on the financial sector and the subsequent banking crisis.
    Russia famously defaulted on its loan payments about a decade after it converted to a free market economy.
    The Great Depression is also an example of capitalism failing spectacularly.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    Ireland had some boom years and greatly expanded its social programs now that the economy has tanked they cannot support all of programs that were started. This is more of an indictment of over reaching during good times and not preparing for the down times than showing that socialism cannot work on any level and capitalism works all the time.
    This is similar to California's situation. We had a few good years when CA was flush with tax receipts and the pols increased spending as if the high tax receipts were the new baseline. I don't know how CA is going to dig itself out of debt, as it is one of the worst states for a business to reside in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ODH View Post
    The Great Depression is also an example of capitalism failing spectacularly.
    You could also cite the Great Depression as an example of government intervention making the situation far worse than it may have been absent said intervention.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    Government health care???? Obama's health care reform doesn't come close to resembling Canadian or some European "government health care" systems.

    You free markets guys have it all figured out. Let big pharma and the health insurance mega corporations have their lobbyist save the day. Anything else is Socialism or Communism in your eyes.

    Take a look who's winning in the current environment. Corporations are setting record profits, while the common man is getting curb stomped. Yet you guys spin any attempt to level the field as some socialist wacko coup.

    Turn your radio dial already. You owe it to your self.

    Your are correct, Obamacare isn't what they have in Europe, yet. He and other prominent members of the democrat party want to take it there. He said he was for a single payer system, but admitted it will take years to get us there. So, this is the first step and I think we should stop it now.

    About big pharma, I agree that they are ripping people off. Everyone is told that a pill can cure anything. People should be taught prevention and then natural cures. Pills are necessary in a lot of cases, but not nearly as much as they want you to think. The insurance companies, though, don't make near the profit as pharma or hospitals. I think they are taking the public hit for something that isn't all their fault.

    Yes companies are making good profits, but why is that bad? This "common man" or "main street" argument is getting old. Union workers are making record salaries. Aren't they the common man? Don't they have lobbyists in Washington? Aren't they exempt from Obamacare? If it is such a good plan, why are hundreds of companies exempt from it?

    And finally, why does every liberal think that every conservative is somehow brain washed by talk radio? Is it too far fetched to think that some people really do have conservative thoughts? It isn't about the radio dial, it's about common sense.

  5. #23

    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Yes companies are making good profits, but why is that bad? This "common man" or "main street" argument is getting old. Union workers are making record salaries.
    False. Union wages, like wages for 80% of Americans, are not at a "record rate." In fact, when geared for inflation, just like all other income brackets in the bottom 80%, wages have decreased significantly over time. Add to the fact that benefit packages are far less handsome today as they were in the past, and those "record earnings" go down even more.

    Here's one union worker to testify to that! I also live in a town that has a big John Deere plant, where new hires start at about $12 per hour. This is a FAR cry from the glory days of the union workers' starting wages 30-40 years ago, again, when geared for inflation.
    UNI Panthers...Because it's just right.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Sorry quinn and Ugly, the type of arguments you are making frustrate me. Economic systems are not religious beliefs, there are no teams, and one is not "good" nor "evil" or correct in all situations. The "socialism=good, capitalism= bad" argument is very simplistic, and does not take into account that pretty much every economic system has aspects of both government control and free enterprise (see banbasketball's post # 18).

  7. #25

    Find Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    And finally, why does every liberal think that every conservative is somehow brain washed by talk radio? Is it too far fetched to think that some people really do have conservative thoughts? It isn't about the radio dial, it's about common sense.
    First of all, I'm not a liberal.

    Secondly, I don't think every conservative is a Limbuagh ditto head. I personally agree with many conservative viewpoints.

    However, I do have a problem with people who spin every negative headline in a way to make their side look good and the other side to look bad.

    That's exactly how this thread began and why I wasted my time commenting.

    I don't care if you are liberal or conservative. Just tell the truth and be consistent.

  8. #26
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hooray euro socialism

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    ...
    You could also cite the Great Depression as an example of government intervention making the situation far worse than it may have been absent said intervention.
    I have heard that the depression was lengthened becasue of too much government interference and also becasue the government did not do enough, but I have never heard that too much government was the cause. Considering it started in 1929 and was still going strong when FDR took office in 1933, I assume Hoover did very little as far as government interference.

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