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Thread: Rand Paul

  1. #10
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Thank you, Mark. When one person's rights (to serve or not serve whomever they please in a privately owned establishment) conflict with another person's rights (to be treated equally, regardless of race), society must decide which person's right will overide the other. I think the choice here is clear.

    Spider I think we all agree that people should be treated equal. But we still have male and female only clubs, do these violate the civil rights bill? Should people be able to carry a gun into an establishment that does not wish to have that gun on the property? The issue is the government taking to much power over private business and property. Should business owners be allowed to refuse service if the customer can not communicate in the language of the establishment?

    It is a slippery slope, where the government can have to much control over private enterprise.

  2. #11
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Music Re: Rand Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Spider I think we all agree that people should be treated equal. But we still have male and female only clubs, do these violate the civil rights bill? Should people be able to carry a gun into an establishment that does not wish to have that gun on the property? The issue is the government taking to much power over private business and property. Should business owners be allowed to refuse service if the customer can not communicate in the language of the establishment?

    It is a slippery slope, where the government can have to much control over private enterprise.
    As I said, in each case society (courts, legislatures) must decide which right supercedes the other. The male/female, armed/unarmed, language, etc. issues are all different and must be evaluated individually. There need not be a slippery slope.
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  3. #12
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rand Paul

    The other issue here is also that Paul said he is against segregation. He takes issue with people who want to segregate, but he also said it is their fist amendment right to voice their opinion when ever or wherever they want. Should civil rights for minorities overthrow the bill of rights afforded to everybody?

    Are people not allowed to say what they want? Should a business owner be allowed to voice his resentment towards a specific group on the grounds of his private business?

  4. #13

    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Can't restaurant owners already refuse service to anyone? They just need to say "we're having a private party", "Our dress code prevents you from coming in", or "we're full".

  5. #14

    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Spider I think we all agree that people should be treated equal. But we still have male and female only clubs, do these violate the civil rights bill? The issue is the government taking to much power over private business and property. Should business owners be allowed to refuse service if the customer can not communicate in the language of the establishment?
    In regard to your first point, no, that has been ruled on by the USSC on several different occasions to not violate civil rights. Why? because the courts have said that private establishments that are not open to the public (the key differentiation) can pick and choose who they want to have as members. The most significant ruling in this regard had to do with the boy scouts exclusion of gay scout members.

    As for your second point, yes, I think that businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it does not violate civil rights. Some courts have ruled that a person cannot be refused service due to language differences; I think of a case in Washington state in particular.

    If we want to get into the realm of "slippery slope," excluding people based on how they speak a language is the epitome of the "slippery slope." "Ain't you got no steak in stock, sir?" Is that "speaking the language?" I certainly say not, but yet, why would I find it so necessary to kick that person out of my store?

    In regard to a person who speaks no English at all, why would they go into an establishment knowing that they could not be able to do business? That's why when I see people in my area who speaks limited English in an establishment they always have someone with them who can interpret. I'd have to think that someone would be some kind of stupid to try to do otherwise!
    Last edited by ban basketball; 05-22-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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  6. #15

    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Back to the topic, if Rand Paul was raised anything like most of us are raised by our parents (influenced by them), I have to suspect that he would have some problems with civil rights.

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  7. #16
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Schlottke View Post
    Can't restaurant owners already refuse service to anyone? They just need to say "we're having a private party", "Our dress code prevents you from coming in", or "we're full".
    Depends on the reason (in my legally uninformed opinion).
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  8. #17
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rand Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    The other issue here is also that Paul said he is against segregation. He takes issue with people who want to segregate, but he also said it is their fist amendment right to voice their opinion when ever or wherever they want. Should civil rights for minorities overthrow the bill of rights afforded to everybody?

    Are people not allowed to say what they want? Should a business owner be allowed to voice his resentment towards a specific group on the grounds of his private business?

    Wait a minute! Expressing your opinion is a far cry from restricting your restaurant to whites only.
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  9. #18

    Default Re: Rand Paul

    I have no idea how to quote just a portion of someone's post. If someone could tell me how in a pm I'd appreciate it.

    I'm writing about Ban's comment and I will copy and paste it:

    In regard to a person who speaks no English at all, why would they go into an establishment knowing that they could not be able to do business? That's why when I see people in my area who speaks limited English in an establishment they always have someone with them who can interpret. I'd have to think that someone would be some kind of stupid to try to do otherwise!

    I am behind a dude like that every time I go to the gas station and I ask myself the same question. It's good to see that Ban has finally seen the light and agree that dealing with non-english speaking illegals is "some kind of stupid"!

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