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Thread: AZ Immigration Law

  1. #28

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    How about we get out of the way of businesses and let the market figure it out?
    So in your mind there should be no restrictions on letting people enter this country? My solution is tightening the border to restrict the flow of illegal immigrants. Then work on making it easier and cheaper for those to get into this country.

    What about enforcing the laws of this country and holding criminals accountable for their actions?

  2. #29

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    So in your mind there should be no restrictions on letting people enter this country?
    Of course there should be restrictions, but trying to limit the supply for a good which has high demand has proved over and over again to be a really expensive exercise in futility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    My solution is tightening the border to restrict the flow of illegal immigrants. Then work on making it easier and cheaper for those to get into this country.
    I think your solution would be about as effective as tightening our borders has been on keeping drugs out of the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    What about enforcing the laws of this country and holding criminals accountable for their actions?
    I have no problem with this, as long as they aren't trampling the rights of law abiding citizens to do so.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  3. #30

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Of course there should be restrictions, but trying to limit the supply for a good which has high demand has proved over and over again to be a really expensive exercise in futility.


    I think your solution would be about as effective as tightening our borders has been on keeping drugs out of the country.


    I have no problem with this, as long as they aren't trampling the rights of law abiding citizens to do so.
    Like I said before, and you ignored, there are not limits being placed on the supply for cheap labor. End the welfare system and suddenly there will be an influx of Americans willing to do cheap labor.

    When you say that asking non-lawbreaking American citizens for proof of identification is trampling on their rights, do you really mean it? I, for one, have been trying to fight for this for years, but the precident has been set. Remember when MADD, SADD and DARE went all "tee-totaler" and somehow convinced the government that DUI check-points should be legal? I don't remember any outcry about that. So, it was legalized. That set a precident that it was okay for local law enforcement to stop people, for no reason, and ask for their id. People just went along with that like it was no big deal. Well, give the gov't an inch and they take a mile. Guess we just have to live with this one, too. Pretty soon the shock will wear off and you'll be just as happy as those who like the check-points.

  4. #31

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Of course there should be restrictions, but trying to limit the supply for a good which has high demand has proved over and over again to be a really expensive exercise in futility.


    I think your solution would be about as effective as tightening our borders has been on keeping drugs out of the country.


    I have no problem with this, as long as they aren't trampling the rights of law abiding citizens to do so.
    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. h

  5. #32

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Like I said before, and you ignored, there are not limits being placed on the supply for cheap labor.
    When the government does not allow a business to hire from a group of people who want to work for said business, the government is decreaseing the labor pool and therefor the supply of cheap labor.

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    End the welfare system and suddenly there will be an influx of Americans willing to do cheap labor.
    What 'welfare system' are you talking about? Medicare? social security? Problem solved! we'll have a bunch of sick old people pick our vegetables.
    Income assistance? you think that taking away money from people who already don't make enough to live on is going to convince these people to take new jobs that pay even less?

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    When you say that asking non-lawbreaking American citizens for proof of identification is trampling on their rights, do you really mean it?
    Requireing citizens to carry proof of legal residence and detaining those who don't until they prove their innocence is a violation of people's rights. Yes, I really mean that.
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  6. #33

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    End the welfare system and suddenly there will be an influx of Americans willing to do cheap labor.
    Welfare is effectively ended anyway. Prior to the recession, welfare rolls were at their lowest point in history, the value of it is at its lowest point since the 1970's, and it comprises about .3% of federal spending, literally. Couple all of this with the time limit that people can use it, the work requirements for people while they are on it and we'll save little from welfare.

    Now, as for corporate welfare and all of the other goodies that go to middle class folks like me, there we may have some REAL savings. In fact, 75% of government assistance programs go to the non-poor; people like me. I'm the biggest welfare daddy that you'll meet!

    Finally, we already have enough people willing to do "cheap labor," regardless of welfare. The system has been doing that to us for years. The bottom 40% of Americans haven't seen a pay increase since the 1970's, once inflation is figured in.
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  7. #34
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    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Face facts there are a lot of jobs that US citizens won't do for what they pay. These jobs are often dirty, difficult and low paying. Employers also expect the people doing these jobs to work hard and show up every day, so emptying the hypothetical welfare rolls and forcing a workfare type program is not a good solution for employers who can get good, dedicated, hard working employees who are often immmigrants and sometimes illegal immigrants.

    We comsumers benefit from this system. There is a willing workforce to do the jobs we won't and their low wages reduce costs to the consumers.

    I wasn't a Bush fan, but I think his guest worker program was a reasonable solution to a very difficult problem.
    Last edited by ODH; 04-29-2010 at 08:44 PM.

  8. #35

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    When the government does not allow a business to hire from a group of people who want to work for said business, the government is decreaseing the labor pool and therefor the supply of cheap labor.


    What 'welfare system' are you talking about? Medicare? social security? Problem solved! we'll have a bunch of sick old people pick our vegetables.
    Income assistance? you think that taking away money from people who already don't make enough to live on is going to convince these people to take new jobs that pay even less?


    Requireing citizens to carry proof of legal residence and detaining those who don't until they prove their innocence is a violation of people's rights. Yes, I really mean that.
    When you ask what welfare system I am asking about, you conveniently left out all of the 20-50 year olds with nothing wrong. It's okay with you that they can sit around drinking 40's and smoking a pack-a-day and collecting off of other people's taxes. But, God forbid, we ask someone to show some identification!!!

    Government is right by not allowing businesses from hiring from this ILLEGAL pool of people. If they aren't allowed to get jobs here, maybe they would come in here LEGALLY.

    And you also conveniently didn't address the check points. Is that because those are okay with you?

  9. #36

    Default Re: AZ Immigration Law

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    When you ask what welfare system I am asking about, you conveniently left out all of the 20-50 year olds with nothing wrong. It's okay with you that they can sit around drinking 40's and smoking a pack-a-day and collecting off of other people's taxes. But, God forbid, we ask someone to show some identification!!!

    Government is right by not allowing businesses from hiring from this ILLEGAL pool of people. If they aren't allowed to get jobs here, maybe they would come in here LEGALLY.

    And you also conveniently didn't address the check points. Is that because those are okay with you?
    Because you seem to know a quite a bit about our welfare system, are there requirements now in place that require welfare recipients (traditional cash assistance welfare, not the kind that I and the wealthy classes get for sitting on our butts) to either be working or be enrolled in school while receiving assistance?

    If so, that would seem to nulllify your depiction of them just sitting around smoking and drinking (which happens all of the time at country clubs, by the way).
    Last edited by ban basketball; 04-30-2010 at 12:48 PM.
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