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Thread: Gays in the Military

  1. #19

    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Right unfunded tax cuts. The problem is that cutting taxes a certain amount has proven to bring in more income to the government, on the other hand raising taxes brings in less income. So approach is more unfunded.

    The tea parties might not have been around but republicans and conservatives besides ditto heads were pissed at the bush admin and the republican congress including myself. This is an attempt to not let the pendulum swing far left as Obama has wanted by his actions.
    Your logic escapes me. Tax cuts brings in more income and tax increases brings in less? You must have had a strange econ teacher.

    The unhappiness with Bush only started after 2006 when his unpopularity hurt the party to the point where they lost Congress. It had nothing to do with his economic policies or the out of control spending, otherwise the raging tea party movement would have started then so that is a disingenuous response.

    Show me where the republicans in power EVER complained about the deficit in his first 6 years?

  2. #20

    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by washed up wrestler View Post
    Your logic escapes me. Tax cuts brings in more income and tax increases brings in less? You must have had a strange econ teacher.

    The unhappiness with Bush only started after 2006 when his unpopularity hurt the party to the point where they lost Congress. It had nothing to do with his economic policies or the out of control spending, otherwise the raging tea party movement would have started then so that is a disingenuous response.

    Show me where the republicans in power EVER complained about the deficit in his first 6 years?
    WuW if you want something to die tax it and if you want something to flurish give it a tax break. Lowering taxes bring in more to the government usually due to increased spending by consumers, more people paying taxes due to more jobs.....ect

    the unhappiness with Bush started before 2006 in the party which is one of the reasons all the Big Government/Big spending Republicans lost their seats. I know it is hard for you to believe since you only get your news from left wing media/sites but those people who went to Tea Parties complained about Republicans in Congress also. The people started getting upset under the Bush presidency and both the Republican and Dem controlled congress, it just erupted after Obama and this congress made Bush look like a penny pincher.

    Sorry to join in on taking this topic down a rat hole but just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Just answer this question Sully, do you think women would feel uncomfortable showering and doing other private things in the presence of openly straight men? If so, then why wouldn't straight men feel the same way with openly gay men?
    I'm sure some women would feel uncomfortable showering with openly strait men, I'm sure some men would be uncomfortable showering with openly gay men, I'm sure some white men are uncomfortable showing with black men, I'm sure some muslim men are uncomfortable showering with openly jewish men. What I don't see is how the possibility of making people uncomfortable is grounds for blatant discrimination.

    Now maybe you can answer my question:
    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    When they started letting black people serve with white people, did they sue every time they got yelled at 'only because they are black'? when they started letting women served and they got yelled at did they sue because they got yelled at 'only because they are women'? Do soldiers who are openly Muslim, or Jewish, or Athiest, or vegetarian or ________ sue when they get yelled at? Why would gays be different?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    WuW if you want something to die tax it and if you want something to flurish give it a tax break. Lowering taxes bring in more to the government usually due to increased spending by consumers, more people paying taxes due to more jobs.....ect

    the unhappiness with Bush started before 2006 in the party which is one of the reasons all the Big Government/Big spending Republicans lost their seats. I know it is hard for you to believe since you only get your news from left wing media/sites but those people who went to Tea Parties complained about Republicans in Congress also. The people started getting upset under the Bush presidency and both the Republican and Dem controlled congress, it just erupted after Obama and this congress made Bush look like a penny pincher.

    Sorry to join in on taking this topic down a rat hole but just wanted to put in my 2 cents.
    Nice try Chance. As usual, you are beyond the left field bleachers. No surprise there. So you really think the average Joe brought in more money for the Gov't? That is laughable. Take a look at the rising deficit during the Bush years. Do you think that has an impact on the average Joe? Give me a break. You guys swept Bush into office in 2004.

    The tea partiers will all ultimately vote repub. They're just trying to get the farthest right candidate they can find. They've taken over the party. If they were a true movement, they would start their own 3rd party. It's all going to blow up in their face.

    Obama and the Dems are trying and flailing at times to right the ship. They get zero solutions from the repubs in Congress and even less from the far right extreme teabaggers. It's nothing but noise. They really want to see America go down during the Obama years. Unless your pals come up with some solutions other than screaming, then nothing will get accomplished. Maybe that's what y'all want.

    Did you get a 41 decal yet?

  5. #23

  6. #24
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by washed up wrestler View Post
    Nice try Chance. As usual, you are beyond the left field bleachers. No surprise there. So you really think the average Joe brought in more money for the Gov't? That is laughable. Take a look at the rising deficit during the Bush years. Do you think that has an impact on the average Joe? Give me a break. You guys swept Bush into office in 2004.

    The tea partiers will all ultimately vote repub. They're just trying to get the farthest right candidate they can find. They've taken over the party. If they were a true movement, they would start their own 3rd party. It's all going to blow up in their face.

    Obama and the Dems are trying and flailing at times to right the ship. They get zero solutions from the repubs in Congress and even less from the far right extreme teabaggers. It's nothing but noise. They really want to see America go down during the Obama years. Unless your pals come up with some solutions other than screaming, then nothing will get accomplished. Maybe that's what y'all want.

    Did you get a 41 decal yet?



    "There are historical precedents other than those cited directly by Laffer. For example, in 1924, Secretary of Treasury Andrew Mellon wrote, "It seems difficult for some to understand that high rates of taxation do not necessarily mean large revenue to the Government, and that more revenue may often be obtained by lower rates." Exercising his understanding that "73% of nothing is nothing" he pushed for the reduction of the top income tax bracket from 73% to an eventual 24% (as well as tax breaks for lower brackets). Personal income-tax receipts rose from $719 million in 1921 to over $1 billion in 1929"

    From WIKI feel free to read the entire entry.
    Last edited by UGLY; 02-04-2010 at 04:36 PM.

  7. #25
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Chance174 View Post
    ..if you want something to die tax it and if you want something to flurish give it a tax break. ...
    This is a great argument for not repealing the inheritance tax (the Death Tax). I think many wealthy people are planning to die this year because this is the last year before the inheritance tax reverts to its previous rates.

  8. #26
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    I'm sure some women would feel uncomfortable showering with openly strait men, I'm sure some men would be uncomfortable showering with openly gay men, I'm sure some white men are uncomfortable showing with black men, I'm sure some muslim men are uncomfortable showering with openly jewish men. What I don't see is how the possibility of making people uncomfortable is grounds for blatant discrimination.

    Now maybe you can answer my question:
    I dont think that it is analogous to compare races with sexual preference or orientation?

    There are reasons why women cant serve on a sub or on the front lines and it has nothing to do with their capabilities. In the military everyone is supposed to be equal and I dont think it would be right to make special arrangements for people because they are gay. IT also isn't right to allow gays into the military and allow them to secretly shower with men or women that they might be sexually interested in. I know for me personally I would not want to shower with a gay man, just as a women would not want to shower with a man she did not choose to shower with.

    If I served with gay men I did not know it, I never assumed anyone was Gay. If they were I think they did a fine job as a soldier, but I dont think it is right to invade someones privacy like that and be around them in moments where they might not want you around.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Just answer this question Sully, do you think women would feel uncomfortable showering and doing other private things in the presence of openly straight men? If so, then why wouldn't straight men feel the same way with openly gay men?
    I would feel uncomfortable but it seems like a pretty solvable problem; in some situations it might be as simple as installing private stalls like public changerooms have (which I'm sure some men would prefer regardless of the presence or absence of homosexual men.) If a gay man is acting inappropraitely in a shower room or other intimate setting, the millitary needs to with it using sexual harassment rules. Other locations- schools, gyms, athletic teams- manage to deal with the occasional gay man changing and showering among the heterosexuals. Why couldn't the millitary?

    This leads to the next, and most obvious point, if they are allowed to be openly gay and a drill sargent yells at them, don't you think they will sue saying that it is only because they are gay? Of course they will.

    I'm reminded of the TV comedy "Arrested Development" where this scenario occurs. "It'll be a long time before he calls anyone seargent Homo again." Funny show.
    Last edited by arm-spin; 02-04-2010 at 06:37 PM.

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