Gays in the Military

[Chance174]

All I know about gays in the military is this.....I am not going to say "no, you can't defend my freedom and protect me because you are gay, please find a straight guy to defend and protect me please".

I was not in the Military (although tried, knees and shoulders kept me out) so I don't really know a solidiers opinion on the issue but would be interested to hear some comments from them on this issue, both for and against.

[arm-spin]

I agree Chance. I assume the millitary has pretty strict regulations governing sexual harassment and relationships between soldiers. These should apply to both hetero and homosexuals; not sure why extra rules against gays are needed. I'm sure that someone who knows more about the millitary than I do could better explain.

[quinn14]

Sully, first of all, you keep harping back on this picture of your wife. No one is getting kicked out of the military because of a picture! You know better than that so don't try and dumb this down.

Secondly, I did find the same claims that you did about gays getting discharged. The difference between that and finding out how many people have died in Iraq are that we hear about Iraq every day in the news. I wouldn't have to google it, just simply listen to the evening news. That is because deaths in Iraq matter and every news outlet reports it. And, upon reading several claims from people who were discharged for being gay, not once did I read how anyone found out. Could that be because they came out and said it? I don't know, but if they did then they were simply trying to get out because they knew this would do it. They then want to sue.

This leads to the next, and most obvious point, if they are allowed to be openly gay and a drill sargent yells at them, don't you think they will sue saying that it is only because they are gay? Of course they will. That will lead to policy where drill sargents and other superiors have to tip-toe around every single soldier so they don't get sued. Here's a news flash for you- the Taliban doesn't care! They will treat a gay man just like anyone else. We don't need a "kinder-gentler" military. We need men who will go get the job done. I don't care if they are gay or straight and neither do our enemies, so why do people, who will never join the military in the first place, care? Political correctness is fine when it doesn't jeoprodize national security, but there is a limit to everything.

[ODH]

I have a picture of my wife on my desk at work, most of my co-workers have pictures of their spouses as well. Should we all be fired for 'brining our sexuality to work'?



I had to google it, it's just over 13,000. I don't understand how not being able to quote statistics off the top of your head makes something not an issue. I bet most people couldn't tell you how many US soliders have died in Iraq without looking it up, does that mean the number of dead US soldiers isnt' an issue?

Several (I don't know the exact number) of arabic translators were discharged from the military not long after Sept 11 when their was shortage of people with their skill.

The 13,000 number and "don't ask, don' tell" don't jibe for me.
How in the world could the military stumble across 13,000 gays in that period of time unless there was an effort to "out" them?
Or else soldiers were using the policy as a strategy to get out of the military whether they were legitimately gay or not.

[Grant87]

Beware...when the powers that be start news like this...they are doing something else while we are not looking! Where is the effort to win and end Iraq & Afghanistan! Let's hear that news ,not some 5 year plan....it's not a retirement goal! I am not gay but I do like watch two women get it on...can I be a politician (I say one thing and do another).

[FloggingSully]

Sully, first of all, you keep harping back on this picture of your wife. No one is getting kicked out of the military because of a picture! You know better than that so don't try and dumb this down.

What I know is that if it is found out that a soldier is gay, he/she can be discharged from the military. I don't know how it has to be found out but I don't see why having picture of a significant other wouldn't be enough evidence that someone is gay. I don't think that 13,000 soldiers have tried to make out with their CO so they must have been found out some other way.

Secondly, I did find the same claims that you did about gays getting discharged. The difference between that and finding out how many people have died in Iraq are that we hear about Iraq every day in the news. I wouldn't have to google it, just simply listen to the evening news.

I don't care to argue semantics, you made the claim that something wasn't a big deal unless people could come up with statistics without looking it up. If having to hear stats on the news is differant in your head than having to google them fine.

This leads to the next, and most obvious point, if they are allowed to be openly gay and a drill sargent yells at them, don't you think they will sue saying that it is only because they are gay? Of course they will.

When they started letting black people serve with white people, did they sue every time they got yelled at 'only because they are black'? when they started letting women served and they got yelled at did they sue because they got yelled at 'only because they are women'? Do soldiers who are openly Muslim, or Jewish, or Athiest, or vegetarian or ________ sue when they get yelled at? Why would gays be different?

[washed up wrestler]

Since I am home ill, my boredom has brought me in here again so I will enter the fray.

What is really interesting about the current republican party is that they have always claimed that they demand government out of their lives but they have no problem wanting to take rights away from gays and women.

Only since Obama came in has the tea party folk vented their rage at big government. What a coincidence. The two longstanding issues are homos and abortions.

I don't recall the tea party movement being around when the republican passed the unfunded legislation to have tax cuts during war time (unfunded) and the prescription drug gift to big pharma (unfunded).

Sorry to slightly redirect the thread but as usual the numbers around here are about 5-1 righties vs lefties.

[quinn14]

Just answer this question Sully, do you think women would feel uncomfortable showering and doing other private things in the presence of openly straight men? If so, then why wouldn't straight men feel the same way with openly gay men?

[UGLY]

Since I am home ill, my boredom has brought me in here again so I will enter the fray.

What is really interesting about the current republican party is that they have always claimed that they demand government out of their lives but they have no problem wanting to take rights away from gays and women.

Only since Obama came in has the tea party folk vented their rage at big government. What a coincidence. The two longstanding issues are homos and abortions.

I don't recall the tea party movement being around when the republican passed the unfunded legislation to have tax cuts during war time (unfunded) and the prescription drug gift to big pharma (unfunded).

Sorry to slightly redirect the thread but as usual the numbers around here are about 5-1 righties vs lefties.

Right unfunded tax cuts. The problem is that cutting taxes a certain amount has proven to bring in more income to the government, on the other hand raising taxes brings in less income. So approach is more unfunded.

The tea parties might not have been around but republicans and conservatives besides ditto heads were pissed at the bush admin and the republican congress including myself. This is an attempt to not let the pendulum swing far left as Obama has wanted by his actions.