USADA to Ban/Strip Lance Armstrong

[Spider]

10 witnesses with...lets kindly call it circumstantial evidence. It's not like people are saying they watched Lance get injected with EPO. Not only that, but most of these people gave evidence in exchange for reduced punishment or immunity for their own crimes.

My 64 year old brain is trying to recall exactly what the attorney on the Today Show said, but he implied that they had a pretty strong case against Lance and that if he fought it, not only was he likely to lose, but it could lead to worse consequenses for him.

For me, the bottom line is that WADA and USADA have been after Lance since 99 at least. There is nobody they wanted to bust more than Lance. And while almost all of his main competitors DID get busted, Lance never did. That alone gives me pause before proclaiming him guilty.

Is this because they believe that he's guilty or because they just like to bring down winners? I'm not proclaiming him guilty any more than I'm proclaiming OJ guilty, but I do believe that he is and if so, his hypocrisy is disgusting. If he is indeed innocent, Lance, I apologize.

[Zapp Brannigan]

My 64 year old brain is trying to recall exactly what the attorney on the Today Show said, but he implied that they had a pretty strong case against Lance and that if he fought it, not only was he likely to lose, but it could lead to worse consequenses for him.

I mean...that's great, but the Today Show isn't exactly my go-to for hardcore legal analysis. But yes, he was going to lose. It was an arbitration panel being administered by the group that has been trying to bust him for 10+ years.

Is this because they believe that he's guilty or because they just like to bring down winners? I'm not proclaiming him guilty any more than I'm proclaiming OJ guilty, but I do believe that he is and if so, his hypocrisy is disgusting. If he is indeed innocent, Lance, I apologize.

There was massive amounts of physical evidence against OJ that was lost due to prosecutorial incompetence. There is almost no physical evidence here, just second hand testimony of people who have actually been caught cheating and got reductions/immunity.

You only normally have to defend yourself against charges twice: criminally and civil. Lance has had to defend himself repeatedly against the same charges, and never facing criminal charges, nor civil charges related to doping (although I may be unaware here). He's being "charged" by a non-governmental organization under...sketchy rules of evidence.

[Spider]

I will admit that I didn't see him take any drugs, but I do have second hand evidence of a teammate who claims to have seen him do so. Not conclusive, but I believe it. Perhaps the evidence, to which none of us is privvy, is enough to strip him of his titles and perhaps it isn't. I just think that there's so much smoke here that something has to be burning. I also do not believe that any organization would want to bring down such a national hero without good reason. It does no one any good.

[Zapp Brannigan]

I will admit that I didn't see him take any drugs, but I do have second hand evidence of a teammate who claims to have seen him do so. Not conclusive, but I believe it. Perhaps the evidence, to which none of us is privvy, is enough to strip him of his titles and perhaps it isn't. I just think that there's so much smoke here that something has to be burning. I also do not believe that any organization would want to bring down such a national hero without good reason. It does no one any good.

I disagree. Lance is, apparently, quite the dbag in real life, especially to non teammates. Taking him down hurts a guy they personally dislike and has overshadowed the sport, while making the organization look like they're getting something done. They've been chatting him for close to a decade. No matter how rich you are, nobody can afford to live in a constant state of high level litigation.

[Spider]

I disagree. Lance is, apparently, quite the dbag in real life, especially to non teammates. Taking him down hurts a guy they personally dislike and has overshadowed the sport, while making the organization look like they're getting something done. They've been chatting him for close to a decade. No matter how rich you are, nobody can afford to live in a constant state of high level litigation.

Well I'd hate to think that they would go this far with a personal vendetta, but I guess it's possible. Still, I believe he is guilty. If your point is that he doesn't deserve to be stripped of his titles until there is proof of his guilt, then I guess that's true, but we don't know the extent of the evidence they have against him, so it is a moot point.

[JensenS]

It just seems impossibly weird to me to imagine that people would use such substances for biking, and that it would actuaally be advantageous to do so!

Goes to show how ignorant I am of the sport.

They aren't using in the stereotypical sport (bodybuilding, powerlifting, weightlifting, football, baseball) method that I assume you're associating them with (getting stronger), they use anabolics and blood doping agents (like EPO) as recovery boosters.

[Zapp Brannigan]

Well I'd hate to think that they would go this far with a personal vendetta, but I guess it's possible. Still, I believe he is guilty. If your point is that he doesn't deserve to be stripped of his titles until there is proof of his guilt, then I guess that's true, but we don't know the extent of the evidence they have against him, so it is a moot point.

It wasn't enough 5 years ago, 2 years ago, etc. All the "new evidence" is basically other people giving the exact same type of hearsay testimonial evidence.

[r.payton@att.net]

I agree Zapp .

[Snackem]

It wasn't enough 5 years ago, 2 years ago, etc. All the "new evidence" is basically other people giving the exact same type of hearsay testimonial evidence.

That is my biggest beef with this. This guy has been through the ringer how many times when he was competing? Then how many more times after he retired?