Does this make any sense to anyone?

[pm01]

Ugly,
I posted the 2 contrasts in BB's perceived attacks. I called him ( deservedly) a ''royal prick''.

He then unleashes threats and obscene comments .BB is not worth getting into a disagreement with ,IMO.

r.payton, you're a smart man so you probably already know this, but when a man has nothing more to say he resorts to insults and threats. I've seen that pattern with he-who-will-remain-nameless before. He's the first person I've ever introduced to the 'ignore' function, and it was definitely the right move. I encourage you to give it a try. Sometimes it's the only way to handle it.

[LkwdSteve]

==="If equating my belief in equal treatment-which has been my point throughout-with a violation of the Ten Commandments isn't sarcastic, then you (1) haven't been able to follow my one point or (2) are taking me way too seriously."

I think a girl winding up in jail in this situation is VERY serious business and tantamount to judging her guilty of what is considered any society's most harmful crimes. I'm not sure it's possible to take your judgement in this matter "too seriously".

==="The first priority of educators is following state and federal guidelines, and our bosses guidelines. That's what keeps the system going. If we don't do that, then we aren't educating by policy."

I'm not sure what this actually means, other than it appears to be a perfect prescription for a pervasive lack of leadership. I also know that I have personally been the victim of gross missteps by a teacher that were allowed under the heading of "educating by policy".

==="1. Over 16 years of teaching and my policies and belief in treating everyone equally isn't "well thought out?"

No, your position on "treating everyone equally", AS APPLIED TO THIS SITUATION", is not well thought out (IMO). I can't speak for the rest of the 16 years.


==="2. Are you an edurcator? If not, then what do you know that we don't?"

Your use of the word "we" (meaning educators) seems to imply that all other educators would agree with your position here. I don't believe that to be the case. If I am right, then the question becomes "what do some educators know that others don't?"

==="3. Are you saying that the school should NOT follow the law and just allow their students to be tardy, regardless of circumstance?

Nope, The circumstance is everything.

==="If not, what circumstances should be allowed, and how do you know when those circumstances are valid or a lie?"


FINALLY, we have the key question and you just dismiss it, as if no answer is possible!!

To answer, you gather full information and make judgments. In my managment days we called it "situational ethics". There is a reason that two of the three corporations that I worked for considered it extremely important to give situational ethics a prominent place in their training on how to manage people. One thing we learned for sure is that "inflexible hard-and-fast rules" are NOT ALWAYS the best management tool, especially when it comes to making the most of recognized positive motives.

And make no mistake, schools are also about people management.

==="4. 4. Should the judge not enforce the law? If he should enforce it, should he pick and choose between students' cases, and how do you do so in line with fairness, the law, and students who are lying about why they are absent?"

Same answer as in 3 above. You make a judgement on full information. If not available, you get it.

You skipped over the part about finding the AWOL parents. If a case ever cried for it, this one seems to. Issue a summons, and if ignored, a bench warrant. That would be treating the parents equal to other parents in a similar situation. I suspect this would take the case on the track it belongs on. Establish guardianship answers, and if this girl is truly on her own, then special educational provisions, must, must, MUST be made for that.

==="What's not well thought out?"

Asked and answered above.

[r.payton@att.net]

r.payton, you're a smart man so you probably already know this, but when a man has nothing more to say he resorts to insults and threats. I've seen that pattern with he-who-will-remain-nameless before. He's the first person I've ever introduced to the 'ignore' function, and it was definitely the right move. I encourage you to give it a try. Sometimes it's the only way to handle it.

I did put him on ignore for awhile yet friends would PM me staing he was talking smack again. On PANTHER PRIDE he is often referred to as RETARD.Nice Cuthulhu reference .")

[r.payton@att.net]

[ban basketball]

r.payton, you're a smart man so you probably already know this, but when a man has nothing more to say he resorts to insults and threats. I've seen that pattern with he-who-will-remain-nameless before. He's the first person I've ever introduced to the 'ignore' function, and it was definitely the right move. I encourage you to give it a try. Sometimes it's the only way to handle it.

It is my personal policy to NOT insult and attack, UNLESS it is first brought to me. I invite you, no, I beg you, to find anywhere in here where I have INSTIGATED such things. Good luck on that search.

Also, for someone apparently "ignoring me," you sure seem to spending a hell of a lot of time paying attention to me!

LOL!!!!!

[ban basketball]

Yes, that debate came up about 4 years ago when I was the lone voice showing my support for Brad Penrith.

Have any other current posts where "the majority are annoyed by me?"

[ban basketball]

LkwdSteve,

I'll just comment on the ones that I believe need "clarification." Replies are in bold.

==="The first priority of educators is following state and federal guidelines, and our bosses guidelines. That's what keeps the system going. If we don't do that, then we aren't educating by policy."

I'm not sure what this actually means, other than it appears to be a perfect prescription for a pervasive lack of leadership. I also know that I have personally been the victim of gross missteps by a teacher that were allowed under the heading of "educating by policy".

What that means is that I have to, first and foremost, teach the curriculum for my academic area, as prescribed by the state, and, to a lesser degree, the federal government. What that also means is that I have to follow all state and federal requirements to fulfill my job, as well as all requirements spelled out for me by my institution and dean. If I am NOT fulfilling any of this, first and foremost, I'm in BIG trouble and will rapidly lose my job and the school will rapidly be in hot water as well. In short, I must first follow the rules prescribed for me as a state educator.

If that equates (somehow) to a "lack of leadership," then I plead an enthusiastic "GUILTY!" However, it seems funny that I've kept my job, with fairly rave reviews for 16 years, by such a blatant "lack of leadership" following state and federal guidelines. I'd be curious to see what you'd have to see about an educator who DOES NOT follow such guidelines, first and foremost. Would that be a "leader?" Hmmm....

==="2. Are you an edurcator? If not, then what do you know that we don't?"

Your use of the word "we" (meaning educators) seems to imply that all other educators would agree with your position here. I don't believe that to be the case. If I am right, then the question becomes "what do some educators know that others don't?"

Of course they wouldn't all hold the same policies that I do; thank God! However, I asked you the question because those who don't work in education seem to have the most difficulty in grasping the concept of academic freedom, and how a cookie cutter approach to education doesn't work very well , and is grossly short-sighted. My polices work for my classes and my academic area. Trust me, I tried in my early years to be the "do as you please" styled educator, but guess what? You get a reputation VERY QUICKLY for being easy to walk all over. Since changing that approach, that is one problem that I don't have anymore, and it has worked flawlessly for about 12 years. People know what they are getting into from day one. After that point, THEY choose to drop the class or stay, not me.

==="3. Are you saying that the school should NOT follow the law and just allow their students to be tardy, regardless of circumstance?

Nope, The circumstance is everything.

==="If not, what circumstances should be allowed, and how do you know when those circumstances are valid or a lie?"


FINALLY, we have the key question and you just dismiss it, as if no answer is possible!!

To answer, you gather full information and make judgments. In my managment days we called it "situational ethics". There is a reason that two of the three corporations that I worked for considered it extremely important to give situational ethics a prominent place in their training on how to manage people. One thing we learned for sure is that "inflexible hard-and-fast rules" are NOT ALWAYS the best management tool, especially when it comes to making the most of recognized positive motives.

And make no mistake, schools are also about people management.

Logically, and to someone who doesn't work in education, that makes sense. However, what I found is this: you run into a problem with fairness in the area of education, which is my SECOND most important consideration, if you have such policies of making exceptions. This may get a bit lengthy, so I apologize in advance.

As I said above, I used to freely allow students to turn in assignments late with no penalty, and to make-up exams with no penalty. Seemed logical; people run into circumstances where they simply can't get the work done, or couldn't make it on exam day. AsI also said above, that policy turned into a NIGHTMARE very quickly, as I developed a reputation for being "easy" that way, and students didn't respect the deadlines. That still may be all well and good, as I was allowing for those unique circumstances where people genuinely ran into problems, but the problem that I "discovered" with this came from a comment that my wife made one evening when she was taking a night class at UNI (in my academic area, btw). She worked hard at getting her work done by the due date, worked hard to study for exams and was present on exam day, but many students didn't and simply made up the exam or assignment on a later date with no penalty. What she said was that it wasn't fair that she worked hard to get it all done by the due date, while other students were actually allowed to have more time to complete the work/study for the exam than what the other students got. That was my "a-ha" moment regarding this and what led to my policy change: it becomes an issue of fairness.

When I allow students to turn work in late with no penalty, or allow students to make-up exams with no penalty, that isn't fair to students who didn't get that extra time that the others did. Since I realized that (I still thank my wife for pointing it out), my policy changed, and, overall, students respect it and me for doing this. When I explain my rationale for it on day one (when I give them the option to drop or stay), you can see many students nod their heads in agreement with that, with many students saying, "Thank you" for having a policy that is based on fairness in regard to that. In short, it is a big problem at our school, and students appreciate my policy regarding that. It IS all about fairness to me.

Finally, how do I know that most are actually lying and not genuinely not running into problems or issues that prevent them from being there on exam day? For one, the same student names seem to come up over and over with other instructors regading this. Second, and most importantly, in 16 years of teaching I have made one consistent observtion: in 16 years, I have NEVER, NEVER had a student miss a final exam. How could that be? Just good luck? I suspect it's because students aren't as busy as they tell us on exam/due date days!

==="What's not well thought out?"

Asked and answered above.

And I have replied by showing that I have 16 years of planning and thinking this stuff through. I'vve tried it both ways, but this method works best from my standpoint, and from a student standpoint. Also keep in mind that my students are adults; they can handle my polices and do appreciate them in their design to make it fair for everyone.

I would also say, in closing, that the school has but one option in this case: they must, by law, turn the student over to the courts. That is what I mean by, first and foremost, we must follow state policies as educators. From the school's standpoint, they have no other option, and nor does the student; she HAS to improve her attendance or she goes back to the court.

My comment regarding the judge still stands: as a person who believes that when you deal with people that you must, first, be fair to all, I just hope that he "gives a break" to all other students like he did this one. If he does not, and picks and chooses between

[ban basketball]

I did put him on ignore for awhile yet friends would PM me staing he was talking smack again. On PANTHER PRIDE he is often referred to as RETARD.Nice Cuthulhu reference .")

OFTEN!!?? Where and when?

This should be good...

[ban basketball]

Does anyone else find it creepy that our resident paranoid, r payton, actually goes onto other websites to read comments that others have made about me from several years ago?

I just checked, out of curiosity. r payton had to go through pages and pages of my comments on panthernation over the course of several years to find this one quote from the one thread where we had a hot debate about firing Brad Penrith. WOW!

Let me ask: what would be the fascination and obsession where you would have to do that? To show that I've had online debates on panthernation four years ago?

YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!