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Thread: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

  1. #19

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Hold on Quinn. The new VH is pretty damn good. When I first heard "Tattoo" I was disappointed but that song is probably the weakest on the album. I recommend you give it another chance.
    I will try to find more on youtube. All I could find before was Tattoo and the reviews I've read weren't very good for the rest of the album. But you don't have to twist my arm to get me to listen to more Van Halen, so I will do so.

  2. #20
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    What is biased about a test?

  3. #21

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    What is biased about a test?
    Nothing is biased. I am sure that it has to do with affirmative action. They fairly gave the test to all, but the blacks clearly couldn't pass it. So, instead of just hiring those who did pass, they had to lower standards so the "right amount of blacks" would be hired. Gee..... I don't see what the problem is. If your house burns down because someone who is incompetent was hired over someone who was competent, thank the people who gave us affirmative action.

  4. #22

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Police department looks to be doing very well since the lowered standards.
    http://www.cityofdayton.org/PressRel...0in%202011.pdf
    http://www.cityofdayton.org/departme...ics_2011Q1.pdf

    I couldn't find any real data on the fire department, but, aside from the police chief (who looks to be working for this department long before the lowered standards), I can't seem to find any minorities in any of these pictures.
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  5. #23

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    I wonder how they factor those stats? I honestly don't know, but I do know that the population of Dayton has gone down 14%. So do they take just the number of crimes committed without taking into consideration of the number of people who live there? Don't know. Nothing I can find says. But I am sure the city isn't going to say they do that if they, in fact, do. Because they want more people to move back in. Here is the population link.

    Dayton (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

    Now, with that said, do you agree that they should just hire people who can't fairly pass a test just because they happen to be black? That is racist. A bunch of non-blacks passed the test fair and square. 57 blacks did. Then they change the process because not enough of one color passed. I can guarantee you that the 57 blacks who passed were automatically hired. Then they lowered the standards so that some of the 433 people of a different color had to give up a position that they earned, only to give it to another person who didn't earn it, just because of the color of their skin. If that isn't the definition of racism then I don't know what is.

    And here's something to ponder. What would those statistics look like if they didn't lower the standards? How much more crime could have been prevented? Probably doesn't matter to you and me because we don't live there. But what about the people who were victims of violent crimes that could have been prevented had the cop with a failing grade not been hired over the ones who actually passed the test? What if it were your wife, daughter or mom who got raped in a preventable situation, but it wasn't prevented because the cop got scared or hesitated or was on a smoke break? Would you really care about the color of the cop's skin? Come on man, this is the 21st century. Skin color should not matter.

  6. #24

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    1. Again, this does not appear to be an affirmative action initiative. For one, Dayton would have already been under such requirements long before these new standards were put in place.

    2. The news stories that I read from Dayton newspapers reported that this was put in place because of the need for new recruits because of large numbers of retiring police officers and firefighters. It went onto say that the old standards made it to where they couldn't find recruits fast enough t be able to pass the test.

    3. Related to the above points, there were not different standards put in place for minorities. The scoring standards for EVERYONE were lowered to meet this need for recruits. So, a poor white guy from a disadvantaged background and/or school system would benefit from these lower standards as would a similar black person. The pictures of Dayton firefighters that I included before testify to that. As I said, I didn't see one minority group member in any of those photos.

    4. It appears that the only group of individuals who have lower standards are ex-military (the most forgotten form of "affirmative action"). They are given the extra point advantage right out of the box because of their former membership in a group/organization.

    5. I looked back through the crime statistics in Dayton before the standards were lowered, and it appears that crime rates were higher in some years before the standards, while, overall, they appeared to be largely unchanged. It seems that the largest drops in crime in Dayton have occurred since the lowering of standards were put in place.
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  7. #25

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    While you keep saying that the standards were lower for everyone, the paper CLEARLY says that the reason they lowered them was because not enough BLACKS passed the test. If it were simply that not enough PEOPLE passed the test they would have said that. It just so happens that enough people did pass the test but not enough of them were black. If the city would have lowered the standards and stated that it was because not enough whites passed the test then the ACLU, JJ, Sharpton, etc...would have been all over this. It is racism pure and simple. Same way suing someone over subconscious thought is racist and ridiculous. I'll bet if white people tried to sue black people over subconscious thought, it would never even be considered. And it shouldn't be considered, because it is stupid no matter what color the people are who are trying to sue.

    I'm not trying to be difficult. I am simply trying to point out how unfair it is no matter who is on which side of the problem. If a test was given to everyone and some passed and some didn't, who cares what color they were? These jobs are very important for the safety of the public. My tax dollars fund them. I want the best damn police and firefighters we can get. I don't care if everyone of them is black, white, asian or whatever. Give the test to everyone and only hire those who pass. If it is done any other way then it puts the public in danger and the public are the ones paying for the service.

  8. #26
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ban basketball View Post
    1. Again, this does not appear to be an affirmative action initiative. For one, Dayton would have already been under such requirements long before these new standards were put in place.

    2. The news stories that I read from Dayton newspapers reported that this was put in place because of the need for new recruits because of large numbers of retiring police officers and firefighters. It went onto say that the old standards made it to where they couldn't find recruits fast enough t be able to pass the test.

    3. Related to the above points, there were not different standards put in place for minorities. The scoring standards for EVERYONE were lowered to meet this need for recruits. So, a poor white guy from a disadvantaged background and/or school system would benefit from these lower standards as would a similar black person. The pictures of Dayton firefighters that I included before testify to that. As I said, I didn't see one minority group member in any of those photos.

    4. It appears that the only group of individuals who have lower standards are ex-military (the most forgotten form of "affirmative action"). They are given the extra point advantage right out of the box because of their former membership in a group/organization.

    5. I looked back through the crime statistics in Dayton before the standards were lowered, and it appears that crime rates were higher in some years before the standards, while, overall, they appeared to be largely unchanged. It seems that the largest drops in crime in Dayton have occurred since the lowering of standards were put in place.
    Ban do you really believe that points for former military is affirmative action? No company is required to hire a certain number of military personel and further more the points are a thank you to those who gave up 4 or more years of their life that could have been spent learning a craft of attending school to develope a skill set needed in the private sector but they chose to fight for our nation. In the military not every job has a private sector job that is to be had, its hard to find companies that just blow stuff up with a 155 howitzer, which is what I did in the Army. We see war vets comeback all the time and are not able to get jobs and it sucks.

  9. #27

    Default Re: Blacks in Iowa sue over subconcious racism ??

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    Ban do you really believe that points for former military is affirmative action? No company is required to hire a certain number of military personel and further more the points are a thank you to those who gave up 4 or more years of their life that could have been spent learning a craft of attending school to develope a skill set needed in the private sector but they chose to fight for our nation. In the military not every job has a private sector job that is to be had, its hard to find companies that just blow stuff up with a 155 howitzer, which is what I did in the Army. We see war vets comeback all the time and are not able to get jobs and it sucks.
    Affirmative action is NOT a quota system. See the Bakke case and others to provide evidence of that. I work within an "affirmative action required instiution", and we have literally 5 minorites compared to hundreds of whites. If it was a "quota system," we would have been shut down 25 years ago.

    If the argument is going to be made that no group should get an "extra advantage" because of membership in that group, why would that NOT apply to the military? Is that not a "special advantage" because of membership in one group?

    Are they also more trained in fighting fires than civilians?
    Last edited by ban basketball; 02-23-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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