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Thread: Team vs individual philosiphy

  1. #10

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    For a team to have success it doesn't always mean making it to state. It could be contending for conference championships or even dominating a few local rivals. It also could mean getting to the play-offs and advancing, but not necessarily to the state championship. The good programs, regardless of the sport are build around winning.

    What you are describing is the individual success that is going to lead to more and more team success. More kids out for any team is good as it will create competition for each starting spot.
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  2. #11
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    I think wrestling is the ultimate individual sport -occasionally a team full of studs will come through at the same time but that's uncommon .
    As a freshman I weighed 170 but my coach often had me wrestle 185 for the team -i still hate that man for doing that -it did'nt make me a better wrestler just added my only 4 losses my freshman year -a 2 weight class jump is tough and useless .

  3. #12

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    As a freshman I weighed 170 but my coach often had me wrestle 185 for the team -i still hate that man for doing that -it did'nt make me a better wrestler just added my only 4 losses my freshman year -a 2 weight class jump is tough and useless
    I feel your pain on that one. I wrestled 155 my senior year and almost always had to go 167 and a couple of times had to wrestle up the next weight class.

  4. #13
    Ancient Arachnid Spider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    Many years ago, our last dual meet was for the league championship. Both teams had their best guy at 145, and we knew that if we bumped our guy away from theirs, we would trade wins and we would most likely win the dual. As an assisitant coach, I said that our guy deserves a chance to beat their guy - it was a once in a lifetime match-up and might not happen again until States, if then. The other assistant wanted to bump away to ensure the team win. My argument was that sometimes the individual is more important than the team, and this was one of those times. The head coach went with my suggestion, and our kid lost, but it was an unbelievable match, and he never would have known how he would have done if we bumped him away. Even though we lost the dual, I still think my choice was the right one at the time.

    Whenever I see the other assistant coach, we still argue about it .
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  5. #14

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Many years ago, our last dual meet was for the league championship. Both teams had their best guy at 145, and we knew that if we bumped our guy away from theirs, we would trade wins and we would most likely win the dual. As an assisitant coach, I said that our guy deserves a chance to beat their guy - it was a once in a lifetime match-up and might not happen again until States, if then. The other assistant wanted to bump away to ensure the team win. My argument was that sometimes the individual is more important than the team, and this was one of those times. The head coach went with my suggestion, and our kid lost, but it was an unbelievable match, and he never would have known how he would have done if we bumped him away. Even though we lost the dual, I still think my choice was the right one at the time.

    Whenever I see the other assistant coach, we still argue about it .
    congrats for you and the head coach. i think any other decision would have been a mistake. i hope the 145 lber learned something valuable from the loss and improved because of it. i'm sure it helped him in the long run.

  6. #15

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    Spider, that was almost like my story my senior year, except it was the league tourney and my coach bumbed me up to keep me away from him. I wrestled him the previous two years 4 times and he beat me all 4 times, but the last time my junior year he only one by 1 point.

    I would have seen him during the season, but it was my first week back after knee surgery and coach wanted to give me an easier match so he bumbed me up. Which I could understand. But, to bump me at the league tourney i was pissed. By the way that kid won State at a div. below mine.

    Funny thing I lost in the finals to a kid i had beaten twice before. I got caught in some funky move that I still dont know today.

  7. #16

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    I'll admit that I have not read this entire thread but here is what I feel. First of all to get more fans we have got to have good dual meets. My wife knows all of our kids but even she has a hard time sitting through a full day tournament. However she does love going to dual meets. I know for me as a coach I want the team to thrive because I feel that so much can be taught through team sports (Yes you can teach a ton through wrestling alone but if you combine a team aspect with that you can open the athletes up to a lot more). That being said I would never ask a kid to sacrifice his potential success on an individual level for the betterment of the team. I've also never been in position to have a team that would win a state title.

    I think that it boils down to two different things with two different goals.

    1. For the kids to gain personal success. Put them where they are best suited for individual success and allow them to collect as much hardware as possible. What will this accomplish?
      • It will get kids excited which will increase participation in the sport. There is nothing that gets a kid more excited about participating than coming home from tournaments with a medal around their neck. And there is nothing that will get more kids involved than seeing other kids that are excited about the sport they are participating in.


      • Secondly this is great for the kids--most of them at least--because it puts them in the best possible position for them to succeed.
        2. If you want the community to get excited about your program then you need to be competitive at the team level. This means asking kids to move up and down a weight class (when they can do so in a healthy fashion) in order to put the best and most competitive team on the mat. Not many people want to show up to a dual meet and watch a bunch of wrestlers run out onto the mat with head gear on and get their hand raised.


  8. #17

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    More often than not as a coach we have to preach team and individual not one or the other. It is important to tell the kids that their success directly leads to team success and that the teams dedication such as good practice partners and accountability lead to individual success. Clearly wrestling is unique and as a coach it is a fine line to walk.

    I guess I don't see why it's a fine line to walk. At least relative to other sports. Wrestling is the one sport you can tell your kid, go out there, worry about yourself and wrestle for yourself and the team will benefit. In basketball, doing that may lead to a PG who scores too much and doesn't pass, in football it may result in a QB wanting to throw it in for a TD. IN wrestling what? A guy goes out there, even if he hates his teammates, and he sticks his kid and it help's the team.


    My coach always had a pretty clear cut rule about team vs individual. Do what's best for you as an individual, work to make yourself the best and it'll only help the team.

    The only time this comes into question is when you're talking about moving around weights, but again, that can be pretty easily handled.

    You can't challenge unless the guy holding the spot loses a match. Beyond that, if you win, it's yours. You can move around for individual, but for a team, it's really that simple.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

  9. #18

    Default Re: Team vs individual philosiphy

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    Great individuals build a great team, but at the same time a great team will foster great individuals.

    If you are building a program, its easier to start with having individuals with success and that will build into the team having success. If you have an established program, having team success will get the best kids in the school out for wrestling. That will lead to even more individual success. Kids want to be a part of TEAMS with success, not just around individuals with success.

    I think the biggest thing about building a program is having that group of leaders that has individual success. I don't think anyone here can think of a program that really built itself up by having 14 pretty good kids. You need that group of kids who has success, and who more importantly, leads by example showing other kids how they've become good individual wrestlers.
    "The true and present danger to America is conservatism!" -Abraham Lincoln

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