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Thread: Freshman on varsity

  1. #1

    Default Freshman on varsity

    When I wrestled in PA in the late 80's freshman wrestled on the junior high team along with 7th and 8th graders.

    Very, very rarely did a freshman wrestle varsity.

    Today it is common place to see freshman mixed throughout a varsity line up.

    What caused this trend?

    Is it healthy for the sport?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground&Pound View Post
    What caused this trend?
    Many things, two in particular the fact that humans are getting bigger and the weight loss plans. Now, more than ever, upperclassmen can't cut to the smallest weight classes.

    Is it healthy for the sport?
    No, not at all. When a freshman is varsity it should be not your run of the mill freshman.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    In Louisiana 9th graders are high school kids, period. They cannot wrestle in the middle school ranks. So if they can find a spot on a varsity roter they can wrestle. Last year I had a freshman start at 119 and 189. They were both about .500. They took their lumps and won some tough matches too. So I don't see the problem.

    I hear the "we have to improve our product". That's BS. How well did "Real Pro Wrestling" do on TV? Not very well and there weren't any freshmen wrestling on there. Those were some of the best wrestlers this country has to offer.

    The people coming to see the matches are the parents and friends of the kids competing not the casual off the street lay person. So if they have a spot let them wrestle.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    I think you let your tongue slip there Champ Kind.

    Now, more than ever, upperclassmen can't cut to the smallest weight classes.
    So, here we go. Finally the real reason why you want to raise the weight class weight. So upper classmen can cut to the lower weight. We shouldn't as responsible coaches, parents or fans try to encourage all of this "weight cutting". It is unhealthy and discourages more kids from participating in our sport. That is a fact. Any idea how often I have to answer that criticism? Up north it's almost accepted in the south it is the dirty phrase that keeps football players and others from trying our sport. I have to refer the critics to my parents. They are the ones that can validate the fact that I discourage this practice.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    As I said in the other thread, we have 3 freshman that will start and get a lot of wins for us. They will be at 103, 112, and HWT.
    They will wrestle for their spots but we do not have any upperclassmen at these weights that can compete with them.
    All 3 will run into some upperclassmen from other schools that will probably whip their butts, but it won't happen very often.
    http://www.youtube.com/TonyAvallone
    Dad of Karissa 155lb Varsity College Freshman

  6. #6

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    The more upperclassmen in the line-up the better the team. Never have I seen a top team in the state full of 14 freshmen and sophomores.

    I want to see more upperclassmen in the lineups and less underclassmen. This will make wrestling a lot better to watch and more exciting for the fans.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  7. #7
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    My uncle in the 70's wrestled varsity in 7th grade at the lightweight. I think it was 98 lbs. then but I'm not certain.

    Most schools in Minnesota now have grade 9-12 as high school. Grades 7-8 or 6-8 at middle school. That is a big change from the old system of 10-12 at high school and 7-9 at middle school.

    Because of school budget cuts here many middle schools don't have many sports offered at all when compared to high schools. Wrestling in middle school only really happens for big middle schools.

    Currently the majority of wrestlers have been wrestling in park board programs and in club programs until that magic age of 14 when they get to high school.

    It is not uncommon to see kids who wrestled most of their lives on teams with kids who wrestling is fairly new to them in high school.

    It is my experience that most small weight kids are seasoned wrestlers. Most smaller weight varsity kids wrestled because that was the only sport they could compete in without being unfairly matched against huge kids.

    My personal experience has been that new inexperienced wrestlers were at middle to larger weights.

    So, as far as being competitive or skilled the smaller weights even when they were underclassman or 7th or 8th graders usually had many years of wrestling experience.

    I know this is not a universal thing but it has been what I have seen to be the case normally.

    Younger does not equal less experienced or a lower quality of wrestler esp. when taking into account how many kids are now specializing in one or two sports instead of being 3 or 4 sports athletes like when I was a youngster.

    The idea that we should go to weights that only the common upperclassman can "cut down to" sickens me.

    There are enough small size guys available if coaches of all sports, parents, the media would realize that small kids can be great athletes too if given the chance in the right sports.

    I don't agree with the premise that varsity is meant to be only for upperclassmen. I have always believed varsity was for the best athletes at a given sport.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  8. #8
    Olympic Champ r.payton@att.net's Avatar
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    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Our school district did not allow freshman to play varsity . Period . You were part of the Jr. high school and there you stayed -Randy Wittman averaged about a zillion pt.s a game and lord knowss our basketball team needed him but just wasn't possible -. My best friend and fellow wrestler Mike Todd routinely beat the hell out of the varsity 167 lber but no way was he ever going to wrestle varsity .
    Of course I am so old Colleges didn't let Freshmen play .

  9. #9

    Default Re: Freshman on varsity

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    My uncle in the 70's wrestled varsity in 7th grade at the lightweight. I think it was 98 lbs. then but I'm not certain.

    Most schools in Minnesota now have grade 9-12 as high school. Grades 7-8 or 6-8 at middle school. That is a big change from the old system of 10-12 at high school and 7-9 at middle school.

    Because of school budget cuts here many middle schools don't have many sports offered at all when compared to high schools. Wrestling in middle school only really happens for big middle schools.

    Currently the majority of wrestlers have been wrestling in park board programs and in club programs until that magic age of 14 when they get to high school.

    It is not uncommon to see kids who wrestled most of their lives on teams with kids who wrestling is fairly new to them in high school.

    It is my experience that most small weight kids are seasoned wrestlers. Most smaller weight varsity kids wrestled because that was the only sport they could compete in without being unfairly matched against huge kids.

    My personal experience has been that new inexperienced wrestlers were at middle to larger weights.

    So, as far as being competitive or skilled the smaller weights even when they were underclassman or 7th or 8th graders usually had many years of wrestling experience.

    I know this is not a universal thing but it has been what I have seen to be the case normally.

    Younger does not equal less experienced or a lower quality of wrestler esp. when taking into account how many kids are now specializing in one or two sports instead of being 3 or 4 sports athletes like when I was a youngster.

    The idea that we should go to weights that only the common upperclassman can "cut down to" sickens me.

    There are enough small size guys available if coaches of all sports, parents, the media would realize that small kids can be great athletes too if given the chance in the right sports.

    I don't agree with the premise that varsity is meant to be only for upperclassmen. I have always believed varsity was for the best athletes at a given sport.
    So you are saying the best wrestling teams in Minnesota are the ones loaded with freshmen and sophomores? I never knew kids in Minnesota peaked at 14, 15 and 16 years old. What you are saying is that kids like Dylan Ness and Destin McCaulley will both get worse these next two years when they are juniors and seniors. I call bullshit on that one!
    Last edited by Champ Kind; 08-06-2008 at 07:16 AM.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

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