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Thread: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

  1. #91

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrastler118 View Post
    Is it the fault of the school that those weights are being forfeited or the fault of the coaches no actively recruiting kids for those open weights? I personally think it is the coaches responsibility to get those weights filled. Sure you'll have an a kid that doesn't need to be in the lineup, but that's a decision to be made at match time.

    The problem I see here is the sheer laziness of a large handful of coaches who simply think the kids will just come to them because they are already there. And its that laziness that has led us to this discussion. Unless you're in an incredibly tiny school, there are kids roaming the halls that could be filling those weights, just waiting for a coach to talk to them.

    My school is small(about 260 kids) and we needed several weights filled after losing several seniors or kids growing. So I went out recruiting and managed to not only fill every hole, but we managed to get 3 deep at 103. All it took was me talking to them and selling our sport to them. Sure they were outmatched at times, but they held their own and won some matches. They worked out all spring and will be back next year, all because I simply asked them. Not difficult.

    However, coaches nowadays are simply too lazy and don't think they need to recruit anymore. As a coach, if you aren't always recruiting kids, then what the hell are you doing in the job in the first place.

    The elimination of the lowest two weights will do nothing but damage our sport even more. We are truly the only sport that is for EVERYONE. However, we want to change it so its more like football and b-ball where size matters more. That's phucked up IMO.

    As coaches, instead of trying to find ways to eliminate weights, we need to be working our butts off to fill those weights every year. Whether its by recruiting kids, helping with the jr high programs or running a youth program, it shouldn't matter. I do all three and it works.

    Another problem I see is that we want to badly for these club kids to be the next Metcalf, that we easily turn those kids off to the sport as they get older because of burn out. We race little Johnny around to every meet imaginable, trying to make them the next National Champion and we forget that these are just kids. So by the time they reach jr high, they are no longer interested. The Jr High years are when a kid decides what sport he wants to do or whether to stick it out. This is why in our program, I emphasize more Jr High wrestling matches, than youth club weekend tournaments.

    I only arrange about 5-6 dates for our kids to wrestle matches at the youth level, but once they reach jr high, they'll get around 40 matches in 2.5 months. We've had less kids quit at the youth level and more kids stick it out in jr high and eventually move onto HS, than in years where we placed more importance on youth matches. Something to consider if you're really wanting to get kids out year after year.

    There is a whole lot of things that we could be doing differently as coaches in order to ensure decent numbers for our teams every year. Just a matter of finding the right solution to the problem. Dropping weight classes wouldn't be an option.
    Great post.
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  2. #92

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Its really hard for a lot of coaches to be actively recruiting when they aren't in the building as teachers or such. Too many of the wrestling coaches are lay coaches and work outside of the building everyday.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  3. #93

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    good post wrastler118, but only 5-6 matches at the youth level? I agree that some of the parents/coaches are going to burn out some good kids. having them lose weight at 4th, 5th grade. Making them wrestle all year around. But I do feel that kids 10 and older can wrestle 40-50 matches a year as long as they want to compete and they are doing more than wrestling throughout the year. For example my boy averages 50 matches and after states we shut it down and move to travel baseball, from there we are in football. It is all his decission, the only thing I tell my boys is they have to be active doing something ( sports, boy scouts, or even choir or band), they choose sports.

  4. #94
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrastler118 View Post
    Is it the fault of the school that those weights are being forfeited or the fault of the coaches no actively recruiting kids for those open weights? I personally think it is the coaches responsibility to get those weights filled. Sure you'll have an a kid that doesn't need to be in the lineup, but that's a decision to be made at match time.

    The problem I see here is the sheer laziness of a large handful of coaches who simply think the kids will just come to them because they are already there. And its that laziness that has led us to this discussion. Unless you're in an incredibly tiny school, there are kids roaming the halls that could be filling those weights, just waiting for a coach to talk to them.

    My school is small(about 260 kids) and we needed several weights filled after losing several seniors or kids growing. So I went out recruiting and managed to not only fill every hole, but we managed to get 3 deep at 103. All it took was me talking to them and selling our sport to them. Sure they were outmatched at times, but they held their own and won some matches. They worked out all spring and will be back next year, all because I simply asked them. Not difficult.

    However, coaches nowadays are simply too lazy and don't think they need to recruit anymore. As a coach, if you aren't always recruiting kids, then what the hell are you doing in the job in the first place.

    The elimination of the lowest two weights will do nothing but damage our sport even more. We are truly the only sport that is for EVERYONE. However, we want to change it so its more like football and b-ball where size matters more. That's phucked up IMO.

    As coaches, instead of trying to find ways to eliminate weights, we need to be working our butts off to fill those weights every year. Whether its by recruiting kids, helping with the jr high programs or running a youth program, it shouldn't matter. I do all three and it works.

    Another problem I see is that we want to badly for these club kids to be the next Metcalf, that we easily turn those kids off to the sport as they get older because of burn out. We race little Johnny around to every meet imaginable, trying to make them the next National Champion and we forget that these are just kids. So by the time they reach jr high, they are no longer interested. The Jr High years are when a kid decides what sport he wants to do or whether to stick it out. This is why in our program, I emphasize more Jr High wrestling matches, than youth club weekend tournaments.

    I only arrange about 5-6 dates for our kids to wrestle matches at the youth level, but once they reach jr high, they'll get around 40 matches in 2.5 months. We've had less kids quit at the youth level and more kids stick it out in jr high and eventually move onto HS, than in years where we placed more importance on youth matches. Something to consider if you're really wanting to get kids out year after year.

    There is a whole lot of things that we could be doing differently as coaches in order to ensure decent numbers for our teams every year. Just a matter of finding the right solution to the problem. Dropping weight classes wouldn't be an option.
    Well stated!
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  5. #95
    NCAA Champ ccbig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ Kind View Post
    Its really hard for a lot of coaches to be actively recruiting when they aren't in the building as teachers or such. Too many of the wrestling coaches are lay coaches and work outside of the building everyday.
    Quote Originally Posted by BMT View Post
    I would suggest, unless you have a detailed marketing plan for the sport and your area, the teams around you that are failing to put full teams out on the mat, and how to get our average roster size to 28 or more, you shouldn't be allowed to complain about it. Heck, I agree with dropping weight classes and I actually listed suggestions here on how to increase numbers. Haven't heard anything like that on any of the forums or actual discussions from people who don't want it changed.

    In fact, the best arguememt I've heard so far is that they just don't like it. Well, do something about it then.
    Of course it's hard. Does that mean coaches shouldn't try?

    I try to do something increasing wrestling participation and promoting wrestling almost everyday at ALL levels during the season and during the off season.

    As a youth coach I coached baseball, football and wrestling.

    I was constantly recruiting for the other sports I coached no matter what the current sport season was.

    If a coach is liked by player and parents the kids often will try a new sport because they like the coach. Year after year I was able to bring new wrestlers to the sport that had never thought of joining by encouraging the athletes and their parents to give wrestling a try.

    As a coach and father of wrestlers I always encouraged my wrestlers and sons to get their friends to try wrestling too. Year after year we added new wrestlers to our team this way.

    As a parent of high school and middle school wrestlers I go to the events for the other sports my sons participate in. I meet other parents. I talk to them and encourage their kids to try wrestling. I participate in booster clubs to help raise funds and promote wrestling. I talk to the coaches of other sports and encourage them to promote wrestling (esp. football coaches) because the kids will often be a much better athlete if they also participate in wrestling.

    This same practice works from youth all the way through high school. I point to lack of participation mostly to lack of effort on the coach and or lack of school support. If your program is having problem with participation what of these extra efforts are your coaches, parents , wrestlers and booster clubs doing to improve it?
    Last edited by ccbig; 08-05-2008 at 10:51 AM.
    If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for, at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them.

    ~Paul Wellstone~

  6. #96

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    I don't think anyone here said that dropping a few weight classes is a magic bullet.

    CCBig & wrastler118 are saying and doing all the right things.

    However, they are going above and beyond what the average high school coaches are willing and able to do.

    I’m not making excuses for sagging programs; I’m just trying to look at the big picture.

    I think lowering the number of weight classes has some merit and I'm not just saying that because I'm too lazy to recruit of full team.

  7. #97

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by legridder155 View Post
    good post wrastler118, but only 5-6 matches at the youth level? I agree that some of the parents/coaches are going to burn out some good kids. having them lose weight at 4th, 5th grade. Making them wrestle all year around. But I do feel that kids 10 and older can wrestle 40-50 matches a year as long as they want to compete and they are doing more than wrestling throughout the year. For example my boy averages 50 matches and after states we shut it down and move to travel baseball, from there we are in football. It is all his decission, the only thing I tell my boys is they have to be active doing something ( sports, boy scouts, or even choir or band), they choose sports.

    i could be mistaken but i think he meant 5-6 tournament dates, thats more matches

  8. #98

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccbig View Post
    Of course it's hard. Does that mean coaches shouldn't try?

    I try to do something increasing wrestling participation and promoting wrestling almost everyday at ALL levels during the season and during the off season.

    As a youth coach I coached baseball, football and wrestling.

    I was constantly recruiting for the other sports I coached no matter what the current sport season was.

    If a coach is liked by player and parents the kids often will try a new sport because they like the coach. Year after year I was able to bring new wrestlers to the sport that had never thought of joining by encouraging the athletes and their parents to give wrestling a try.

    As a coach and father of wrestlers I always encouraged my wrestlers and sons to get their friends to try wrestling too. Year after year we added new wrestlers to our team this way.

    As a parent of high school and middle school wrestlers I go to the events for the other sports my sons participate in. I meet other parents. I talk to them and encourage their kids to try wrestling. I participate in booster clubs to help raise funds and promote wrestling. I talk to the coaches of other sports and encourage them to promote wrestling (esp. football coaches) because the kids will often be a much better athlete if they also participate in wrestling.

    This same practice works from youth all the way through high school. I point to lack of participation mostly to lack of effort on the coach and or lack of school support. If your program is having problem with participation what of these extra efforts are your coaches, parents , wrestlers and booster clubs doing to improve it?
    To lump all the coaches who don't have big numbers into one group and call them lazy is pretty naive of you. The coaches that aren't in the building are doing what they can do from their position. No coach wants to have poor numbers or a poor program.

    Having less weight classes to fill will make the burden less on most of the coaches that are struggling to keep their team afloat. We shouldn't cater to the teams that have great programs, but the mid tier programs that make up most of the teams.
    I will smash your face into a car windshield and then take your mother, Dorothy Mantooth, out to a nice seafood dinner and never call her again!

    Tell me about it, this morning, I woke up and I shit a squirrel, but what I can't get is the damn thing is still alive. So now, I've got a shit covered squirrel running around my office and I don't know what to name it.

  9. #99

    Default Re: Thoughts on poss. weight class changes.

    In my opinion, growing the sport through participation should be the key thing. Dropping weight classes will not do that. 103 freshmen may wrestle 160 as a senior.

    Now if there isn't a place for him as a fresmen, do you think he is just going to practice for the season and wait until he gains the weight to wrestle?

    I know that the high school, where I coach youth isn't as concerned about dual meets. More of the focus is on tournaments and preparing the wrestlers for the state tournament.

    With this philosiphy, he had 77 wrestlers out and fielded a varsity and 2 jv squads. Took one of the jv squads to lower tier varsity tourneys. So these jv's made up of mostly freshmen and sophomores will have a lot of experience when they make the varsity squad.

    And we are not a huge school about 130-150 boys per grade.
    Last edited by legridder155; 08-05-2008 at 12:52 PM.

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