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Thread: An observation

  1. #1
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    Default An observation

    At Nationals you'll see more surprises, and upsets, and a folkstyler winning a big tournament in greco, even though he hasn't concentrated on the style. But when the pedal hits the metal..... the wtt's is what wrestlers peak for (yes there are always exceptions). And it seems to be showing... at least today. Haze is 5th at best. Askren is basically outclassed after seemingly showing potential to sneak in an upset. Nickerson is torched, and who is surprised with Zadick and Roberson? Not me. Cunningham beating Pritz is a good tournament.... but it's hardly like we suspected different. Cormier and Lawal..... GASP! who would have thunk it.

    I could be wrong, but I suspect that Akin - if he can bring what he used to have - laps this field until he gets to a really tough Cejudo. And I suspect the results for FS, Women, and GR follow form.

    Having said this...... everything goes out the window in an Olympic year.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: An observation

    Don't be so hard on Nickerson. 60kg is weird. You have 149 and 141 pound NCAA champs wrestling a guy like Nickerson who is a 125 pound college wrestler.

    Askren is a much bigger bust, going down a weight from college and getting beat 8:2 by aging Blackmon.

    Overall, recent college grads are getting manhandled today. Something to think about when it comes to effectiveness of college wrestling.

  3. #3

    Default Re: An observation

    Quote Originally Posted by Big View Post
    Don't be so hard on Nickerson. 60kg is weird. You have 149 and 141 pound NCAA champs wrestling a guy like Nickerson who is a 125 pound college wrestler.

    Askren is a much bigger bust, going down a weight from college and getting beat 8:2 by aging Blackmon.

    Overall, recent college grads are getting manhandled today. Something to think about when it comes to effectiveness of college wrestling.
    Don't be so hard on Nickerson, who you told us was going to be in the finals, but Askren - WHO DROPPED WEIGHT - is a huge bust because he lost to a guy who has been wrestling nothing but freestyle for many years? Please.

    And college wrestling is not a means to the Olympic end. You may want it to be, it may be that way in other parts of the world, but it's not that way here. And yes, it may be one of the reasons why we've had a downturn on the international stage, but it's not the only reason. I think that our lack of experienced Olympic and World team members is a much bigger problem.

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    Default Re: An observation

    but it's not the only reason. I think that our lack of experienced Olympic and World team members is a much bigger problem.

    And the reason they are not experienced is because they spent so many years in folkstyle.

    This even translates to girls wrestling. The rest of the world.... the average age of their world team members/medalists in in the low 20's. Ours is in the mid 20's. Our young up and coming studs like Hutchinson and Miller are folkstylers wrestling freestyle. Though the girls start freestyle earlier than their male counterparts.... they still have to unlearn folk instincts and relearn freestyle instincts. Tatiana Padilla on the otherhand has always been a freestyler wrestling folkstyle, and at 16 is on the brink of making a world team.

  5. #5

    Default Re: An observation

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    but it's not the only reason. I think that our lack of experienced Olympic and World team members is a much bigger problem.

    And the reason they are not experienced is because they spent so many years in folkstyle.

    This even translates to girls wrestling. The rest of the world.... the average age of their world team members/medalists in in the low 20's. Ours is in the mid 20's. Our young up and coming studs like Hutchinson and Miller are folkstylers wrestling freestyle. Though the girls start freestyle earlier than their male counterparts.... they still have to unlearn folk instincts and relearn freestyle instincts. Tatiana Padilla on the otherhand has always been a freestyler wrestling folkstyle, and at 16 is on the brink of making a world team.
    What I mean by experienced is returning team members. Where are today's Bruce Baumgartner or John SMith? Of course these men had incomparable talent, but they also stuck around after they won medals and tried to get more. Those guys wrestled folkstyle in high school and college, but they did just fine (to say it mildly) internationally. They didn't quit wrestling competitively after they made it to the Olympics. How many members of the FS mens' Athens Olympic team are still competing now? I know that they have their personal reasons for doing it, and they are entitled to do what's best for them, but not having Cael, Abas, and Jamill still competing is detrimental to US wrestling, and in my opinion, more than the college system.

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    Default Re: An observation

    First, I think the goal for most of these guys was folkstyle stuff. I know this was the case with Sanderson. So in his case, because he was so dominate, and so much was expected, he took it to the next level, but in his heart he is and was a folkstyler.... just doing his duty.

    Second, wrestling at that level tends to wear you out physically. Abas seems to have a body that has given out for example. Had he not done the college grind, perhaps he could have medaled earlier, or at least had a few more years in him now.

  7. #7

    Default Re: An observation

    Quote Originally Posted by sgallan View Post
    First, I think the goal for most of these guys was folkstyle stuff. I know this was the case with Sanderson. So in his case, because he was so dominate, and so much was expected, he took it to the next level, but in his heart he is and was a folkstyler.... just doing his duty.

    Second, wrestling at that level tends to wear you out physically. Abas seems to have a body that has given out for example. Had he not done the college grind, perhaps he could have medaled earlier, or at least had a few more years in him now.
    Like I said, personal reasons and it's their choice, but overall, not good for USA wrestling. I just don't think you can blame the college system for all of the ills of USA wrestling, when that same system has produced so many great wrestlers.

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    Default Re: An observation

    I just don't think you can blame the college system for all of the ills of USA wrestling, when that same system has produced so many great wrestlers.

    I agree here. We are top five in the world to be sure. But I think you can blame it on guys like Sanderson and Abas and even Kelly not continuing on after they got some serious world competition results. They hit their pinnacles (and/or wore out) and now they are done. Those nations who do mostly freestyle.... well they wrestle on and on because they love to wrestle.... and wrestle freestyle. They stop because some young gun beats them out (Kotoev in Russia may retire A Satiev for example). A lot of our best wrestlers go freestyle only because they know that is the only way to be considered "best in the world", but not because they love the sport..... as it is wrestled internationally.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: An observation

    Guys in the 20s getting their a$$es kicked right after college can be blamed on college wrestling. Guys not coming back after one medal can be blamed on lack of financial support. These are two different problems.

    Best Nations like Russia and Iran take care of their wrestlers much better.

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