New Greco/Freestyle rules proposals.

[Gantry]

Great writeup by JB: RULES PROPOSAL: Wrestling’s version of Back to the Future

I agree, step in the right direction. Greco is too much to wrap my head around but for freestyle I like the simplification of the scoring for par terre and less points for pushout over TDs. Shotclock better than the leg clinch, though not fully sold.


I hope they do double-elimination or at least AWN's proposal of repechage if you lose to a semi-finalist.

[Gantry]

Breaking down further for freestyle, what I like:

* Cumulative scoring with two 3 minute periods - definitely an improvement
* Out of bounds scoring continuation - rewards aggression
* TDs worth more over pushouts - needed to happen
* All turns worth two points - I'm not a purist so it's simpler and easier to understand. I like it.

What I don't like

* Shot clock - I get the idea, but with the pushout I feel like it isn't necessary. Any rule the relies on a refs discretion I don't like. Ever. If anything do it only once, if a period is tied 0-0.
* Tournament advancement - while can't we have full double-elimination brackets? Especially with multi-day events for a weights?

THat's my 5 minutes of analysis. Greco confused the hell out of me and I'm tired, will approach that one later.

[Gantry]

OK re-read Greco and hate everything about it. THREE different areas where the ref's discretion decides scoring:

1) Passivity - basically US folkstyle rules with the addition of the choice of the opponent to go under. God no
2) Pushout - ref decides if it was forced by the wrestler or created by action. The whole freaking point of the pushout was that it was easy to understand and enforce. Now a ref has a say.
3) Referee's decision - HELL NO

[jba205]

Im excited about the rule changes. I think it will make things interesting and easier for fans to follow. As an added bonus, whenever in wrestling their have been rule changes scoring goes up dramatically for 1-2 years until people figure out how to work around the rules.

The only thing I'm worried about is the passivity shot clock. I can see Russians/AZE having a lot of those calls go their way.

[ODH]

Not sure about the shot clock. It would seem a good strategy to do jsut enough offense to get the opponenet put on the shot clock and then relatively easy to avoid a takedown for 30 seconds. Can you get a passivity call against you when the opponent is on the shot clock? What happens then?

ALSO THIS: "There will be a forced passivity call two minutes into a scoreless period"
It is very easy to see a scoreless action packed two minutes where the ref is forced to give a passivty call to one wrestler. This definitely puts the refs back into the picture in a big way.

I like keeping the pushout and making it one point and a TD two. Very glad they are getting rid of the clinch.

Personally I like the current one day "blitz" tournament. I think it is an exciting format and can help underdogs who get on a roll (see Epsinal). I also think it makes conditioning very important as it shortens the recovery time between matches. Although I do understand the argument for the two day tournament becuase it is easier to highlight the Gold medal matches.

[arm-spin]

Works for me (the freestyle, I don't understand the greco part, but I think making a pushout a judgement call is really stupid). The shot clock is a bit too gimmicky for me; I hope they try it in some trial tournaments first. I guess it's a compromise between forcing action and letting the wrestlers, not refs, decide things.

I really want to know how they handle ties. Yes, the clinch was terrible, but so was the referee's decisions they used to have. The upper body clinch was cool in theory but way too hard to officiate. I'll be disappointed with anything other than first-point wins.

I don't feel strongly about one or two day tournaments either way. I guess the two-day would benefit big weight cutters if the draw is seeded (unless there's to weigh ins). I do like the idea of having all the finals at once.

[JKreisel]

On one hand, I think the shot clock idea is alright. It gives the wrestler an opportunity to avoid a stalling point, by placing the responsibility in his hands instead of the refs. I've never been a fan of folkstyle stalling points, since they are solely given at the discretion of the ref. It happens far too often in folkstyle that a wrestler is hit with two stalling calls in the last 30 seconds of a match. The shot clock rule basically gives the wrestler a chance to remove the ref's interpretation of a second stalling call.

On the other hand, if you're winning by 2 points with less than 30 seconds left, you're home free. You could skip and sprint around the mat and only get hit with 1 stalling point? What happens when you get hit with a shot clock and then the other guy starts stalling to avoid the takedown? If he also gets hit with a passivity call does the shot clock end? What happens if the second passivity call occurs with 10 seconds left in the match...are you only given 10 seconds to score and then you're hit with a caution point?

I get the idea, but it appears to be another confusing component with several rules, making it difficult for non-avid fans to understand. I agree that the push-out removes the need for a passivity rule.

[arm-spin]

New ruls take place immediately!

[ODH]

.... I've never been a fan of folkstyle stalling points, since they are solely given at the discretion of the ref. It happens far too often in folkstyle that a wrestler is hit with two stalling calls in the last 30 seconds of a match....

.

Just as often in Folkstyle, the wrestler with the lead will stall for the last minute of the third and get hit with his first stalling warning with about ten seconds left.

Another question on the 0-0 situation after two minutes with the new rules. The ref has to decide which wrestler to give the stall warning to. Is he supposed to judge the entire 2 minutes or the wrestler who was stalling the most as the two minute clock ran down? It is easy to picture the situation where one wrestler sits back for a minute and a half and then does a couple of attacks so that the opponent gets the warning.