In what other sport...

[arm-spin]

I'm torn gutfirst. I think the rules from the 80's, at least as shown from quick_single's posted matches, are far superior to any recent rule changes. I think the new rules, on average, create more exciting bouts than the ones in the early 2000's which often ended 3-0 or, worse, 1-1 referee's decision after 9 minutes. However, the new rules do showcase some really, truly awful matches (ie 84 kg world finals this year) that wouldn't have been possible before.

I do like the push-out, and I don't the clinch the way it was when I was wrestling, at least in Canada... defensive guy got a chance to get set and a real takedown had to be scored before offensive guy got a point. In some international matches they let the offensive guy start almost in a double leg, or give out really chintzy points (watch the Dudaev/Batirov match on the good matches thread); that drives me crazy.

I didn't like the reverse lift greco rules at all- waaay to many 1-1 last-point-wins rounds. I'm not sure how I feel about the newest incarnation yet- maybe if FILA would put the damn worlds matches on Webtv already I could watch enough to get an idea. The world finals were decent, and the 74 and 120 kg matches were excellent.

[the518]

tennis you can whip your opponent 6-0 lose two sets by tie break 6-6; 6-6 games so thats 18-12 on games in your favor but you lose the match.

[gutfirst]

good point arm spin.

everything went to shit when fila descided there was too much scoring with one move and put the limit on consectutive guts in the early eighties.

downhill from there and no end in sight.

[arm-spin]

You are probably right gutfirst. I think wrestling should be fundamentally a simple sport- after all, it's basically "safe" fighting, right? Clearly there needs to be rules in place to protect the athletes, codify scoring and encourage action (a rule that FILA seems to have forgotten) but the rules keep getting more and more complicated. I see this as a bad thing regardless of format.

[dirtyholt]

this can happen in any series. celtics outscore detroit and still lose. happens in baseball all of the time. the rules reward consistency, not short bursts of offensive power.

[Snackem]

I think that the biggest problem that I have with FILA are the CONSTANT rule changes. I LOVE this sport (obviously or I wouldn't be spending time on an internet message board talking about it) and I'm trying to get my wife hooked on it as well. She has really embraced folkstyle but can't stand freestyle or greco because she doesn't understand it. I've tried to explain it to her but I hardly understand it. It seems that just about the time that I get to the point that I really 'get it' the rules change and often drastically.

[JudoWrestler]

A defence of freestyle wrestling.

Is the criticism of the wrestling rules real or are you just upset the matches are not as easy to win by superior cardio?

I am not old and have only been watching wrestling for a few years. The main criticism i see is from Americans who are upset they cannot tire out their opponents anymore, if anything it appears to me the wrestlers with superior technique win more under these rules rather than the fitter stronger wrestlers.

I also find it curious that Americans are not so critical when their guys score less but still win. When i watch Americans wrestle they appear to have relatively poor technique but go for very many shots trying to overwhelm their opponents, perhaps if the onus was on technique rather than volume of shots you may score more and care less about tiring out your opponents.

If you wish to have more success I would also suggest you ditch folkstyle or atleast change it to look more like freestyle. I am lost at your comments about how exciting folkstyle is, i find folkstyle unbearable to watch, its boring, hard to follow and the level of technique is inferior.

[sgallan]

Very observant post. Yes, there is a lot of the "but we can't wear them out" sentiment. Basically if you watch the matches they are just technically better than us.

FWIW, I haven't seen any "folkstyle is so much better" on this thread. And this site doesn't do that very much. While I happen to like all wrestling I do agree that suggesting that folk is somehow better and more aggressive is kind of silly, unless one likes watching somebody drift to the edge of the mat, and then let any significant action go out of bounds for no points.

For those who don't like the three periods, I think you have some selective memory...... the reason that was instituted was; defenses have gotten so good that a TD and a turn, often early in a match, was basically the end of the match because if the guy with the 3-0 lead had good par terre defense, he/she could block, go down a couple of times, and even give up a TD or two (though that usually wasn't necessary). Remember when there was the 3pt rule? How many matches went the eight minutes? Lots.

[arm-spin]

And guys DO still wear each other out. Watch the 55 kg finals of this year's worlds, or Herbert's 84 kg semifinal, or any of Henry Cejudo or Mindorashvilli's matches from last year's Olympics. The trick is, you gotta wrestle to wear someone out... scrambling makes people tired, standing around pushing doesn't do it.

FWIW I agree with Snackem that the constant rule changing sucks, more than any specific set of rules. And I agree with JW that the NCAA's at least (don't really watch any other folkstyle) have their share of eye-gougingly awful matches.