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Thread: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

  1. #1

    Default Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Serious question here.

    I, like all of you, have been doing my fair share of reading Sanderson posts here as well as on themat, Flo, wrestlingreport, etc... Something that I have noticed, has been the varying opinions of Hawkeye fans concerning Caels decision to go east.

    There are Hawks that are ridiculing Cael for leaving, which would lead a logical person to believe that they are sad to see a great coach leave a great program in the state of Iowa. These same Hawks cite "keeping the cyclone/hawkeye rivalry strong" is important to them, and Cael was instrumental in providing this "strong rivalry".(With good coaching, Im assuming.)

    Now this is were things get cloudy. These same Hawks are also criticizing PSU for hiring Cael, saying things like "Cael wont win a title at PSU" and "Cael being at PSU doesn't worry them, PSU wont get any better" "Cael isn't a motivator" "Cael is not that good of a coach, he has no titles" and all sorts of other defensive nonsense.

    So it seems to me, Hawkeye fans loved Cael at ISU, he provided the Hawks with a "good rivalry" and "good competition".

    So I ask...How in the heck did Cael lose his ability to provide a "good rivalry" and "good competition" and lost his ability to coach a team which will challenge the Hawkeyes just by moving to Pa?

    It seems to me there is some very sour grapes in Hawkeye country, IMO the Hawkeyes KNOW that Cael is a GREAT coach and if Cael/ISU beat them for a Nat'l title, then at least they were from Iowa. Now, they cant have that safety blanket. If Cael/PSU beats them, then Pa is going to take over not only HS supremecy, but NCAA as well.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Not all Hawkeye fans are as you described them.



    From my perspective, something doesn't add up in Cael's decision to go to PSU. He says he got less than a 10% raise and then turns around and says he can win a title easier at PSU. ISU returns all 10 guys from a top 5 team plus all 10 were NCAA qualifiers.


    If PA is his key to a National championship how come he doesn't have a single wrestler from PA on the roster? He has guys from IA,IL, UT, CA, AZ, SD, GA, CT, NH, MI and NJ. He just recruited guys from IA, OH(2), KS, AZ for the 2009/2010 class.


    We aren't getting the whole story and we probably never will.

    I am born and raised Hawkeye fan and the Iowa/Iowa State rivalry in great for college wrestling and the State of Iowa.

    Iowa State will get a great coach and they will be fine. They have tradition and a great fan base. They are one of the top wrestling programs in the country. Penn State currently is not a top 5 program, they are barely a top 10 program. IMO


    Cael may very well set the world on fire at Penn State, only time will tell.
    Last edited by Wiltz; 04-21-2009 at 02:31 PM.
    RIP Jacob Schlottke; KR1963 and rpayton




  3. #3

    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    I want to know what happens and how it plays out if Iowa State gets a great coach and goes on to win the National Championship. Will it be like when John Gruden took over at Tampa Bay one year after Tony Dungy left but forever Gruden was the guy known as the coach who led Dungy's team to the Super Bowl. Part of me really wants to see this happen but if Varner leaves I don't see any chance.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Cael is a good coach, but he hasnt proven to be a great coach yet. His ability to motivate his wrestlers to get to the next level is yet to be seen, leaving most to wonder if he has that ability. Cael could have and probably would have won titles at Iowa State. He has no clue as to what he will do at Penn St. He says he went there becuase the high school wrestling is better there. Unless those high school wrestlers can be coached to the highest level of collegiate wrestling they will never be good enough. Cael has not proven that he can do this. I'm not saying he cannot and will not be a great coach, he just hasnt shown that he is yet.

    Disclaimer: Great coaching as I see it may be way different than great coaching as you see it. I have grown up watching the Hawkeyes all my life so I have pretty high standards for a coach. There are less than a handfull of schools that have these standards. Some may say that Rob Koll or Greg Randall are great coaches, but to me they are still just good coaches. They have done great things at their schools but havnt reached the realm of greatness yet imo. That's how I see Sanderson, good but not great...yet.

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    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Quote Originally Posted by willtowin View Post
    Serious question here.

    I, like all of you, have been doing my fair share of reading Sanderson posts here as well as on themat, Flo, wrestlingreport, etc... Something that I have noticed, has been the varying opinions of Hawkeye fans concerning Caels decision to go east.

    There are Hawks that are ridiculing Cael for leaving, which would lead a logical person to believe that they are sad to see a great coach leave a great program in the state of Iowa. These same Hawks cite "keeping the cyclone/hawkeye rivalry strong" is important to them, and Cael was instrumental in providing this "strong rivalry".(With good coaching, Im assuming.)

    Now this is were things get cloudy. These same Hawks are also criticizing PSU for hiring Cael, saying things like "Cael wont win a title at PSU" and "Cael being at PSU doesn't worry them, PSU wont get any better" "Cael isn't a motivator" "Cael is not that good of a coach, he has no titles" and all sorts of other defensive nonsense.

    So it seems to me, Hawkeye fans loved Cael at ISU, he provided the Hawks with a "good rivalry" and "good competition".

    So I ask...How in the heck did Cael lose his ability to provide a "good rivalry" and "good competition" and lost his ability to coach a team which will challenge the Hawkeyes just by moving to Pa?

    It seems to me there is some very sour grapes in Hawkeye country, IMO the Hawkeyes KNOW that Cael is a GREAT coach and if Cael/ISU beat them for a Nat'l title, then at least they were from Iowa. Now, they cant have that safety blanket. If Cael/PSU beats them, then Pa is going to take over not only HS supremecy, but NCAA as well.

    Thoughts?
    The term "sour grapes" suggests a rationalization for failure that pretends a victory, like rationalizing the Beaucoup bucks PSU spent to get a great wrestler and recruiter, and good coach.

    Make no mistake. I am more a fan of wrestling in Iowa, than of Iowa Wrestling. And it makes me sad for ISU to be left in the lurch by a coach who says he has to move to a university that won't fill the seats, with championship banners already hanging on the wall in Ames. Yes, Cael provided a good rivalry and good competition in-state, but so have John Smith and JRob from other states for many years. They're not going away. It's not only Iowa that Penn State needs to beat to win a title. ISU will get another good coach and be back in the fray as well, because the fans will demand it.

    The phrase you may want to remember is not the one about sour grapes, but the one about counting your chickens before they've hatched.
    Last edited by grapplefan; 04-21-2009 at 07:42 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    His ability to motivate his wrestlers to get to the next level is yet to be seen, leaving most to wonder if he has that ability.
    Most? Seriously??? I would just say take a look at the results as to how good of a coach Cael is.

    06-07: Wins Big 12's and then finishes 2nd at NCAA's. NCAA's come down to the last two finals matches as to whether or not ISU knocks off a heavily favored Minnesota team.

    07-08: Wins Big 12's then "only" finishes 5th at NCAA's. Despite the 5th place finish ISU has 7 All Americans.

    08-09: Co-Big 12 Champions. 3rd at NCAA's.

    I guess I just don't get the whole Cael is too laid back to be a coach thing.

    A lot of these guys he's coaching against have been coaches longer than he's been involved with college wrestling as both an athlete and a coach yet he's still managed to do pretty well for himself.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    I think it's tough to say how i feel about him leaving. The feelings are definitely mixed. I think ISU will be tough no matter who the coach is and won't have a problem finding talent.

    I'm not going to say that caels not a great motivator, but i think that it could be true. I look at it from a psychological perspective. Here's a guy who has been better than everyone his entire life, dominated high school, best college wrestler of all time, olympic champ. I am not saying he didn't work extremely hard to achieve what he did, but he is probably the most talented wrestler I've ever seen. A lot of coaches and succesfull wrestlers have talent, but really had to bust their butts to be great, and even then werent extremely dominant.

    I think it is hard to preach something that maybe you have never had to go through yourself. Cael is an intense competitor who brings a lot to the sport and will be successfull at PSU as he was at ISU. It's like Good Will Hunting, he couldn't really explain it he'd always just been able to just "play." A person like that will have difficulty motivating because they never really had difficulty. I think it could be something similar with Cael.

    He is going to PSU becaue PA is the best wrestling state. OK, first of all, that doesn't guarantee they'll come to you. Second of all, he had talent at ISU, top knotch talent. And he had one of the best prospects in a few years coming to his school from another state.

    I don't believe he did this because of the money for a second.(though it helps) I believe he really thinks that he will be so thick with talent that he will be able to win NCAA titles. That may be true, but I believe he had a team returning from ISU that could be national champions. Time will tell.

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    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiltz View Post
    ....


    If PA is his key to a National championship how come he doesn't have a single wrestler from PA on the roster? He has guys from IA,IL, UT, CA, AZ, SD, GA, CT, NH, MI and NJ. He just recruited guys from IA, OH(2), KS, AZ for the 2009/2010 class.

    ...
    Zero guys from PA, zero national championships. How could the math be any simpler? Cael figured this out.
    Go to PA, get PA wrestlers, get national championship.
    Last edited by ODH; 04-21-2009 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Hawkeye Fans Thrilled or Spilled

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    Cael is a good coach, but he hasnt proven to be a great coach yet. His ability to motivate his wrestlers to get to the next level is yet to be seen, leaving most to wonder if he has that ability. Cael could have and probably would have won titles at Iowa State. He has no clue as to what he will do at Penn St. He says he went there becuase the high school wrestling is better there. Unless those high school wrestlers can be coached to the highest level of collegiate wrestling they will never be good enough. Cael has not proven that he can do this. I'm not saying he cannot and will not be a great coach, he just hasnt shown that he is yet.

    Disclaimer: Great coaching as I see it may be way different than great coaching as you see it. I have grown up watching the Hawkeyes all my life so I have pretty high standards for a coach. There are less than a handfull of schools that have these standards. Some may say that Rob Koll or Greg Randall are great coaches, but to me they are still just good coaches. They have done great things at their schools but havnt reached the realm of greatness yet imo. That's how I see Sanderson, good but not great...yet.
    So by your standards great coachs in wrestling are limited to Gable and Tom Brands?

    I don't know on what basis any of us can question his ability to motivate.
    He seems to have been doing a great job at ISU and maybe he needs a few more seasons with season to qualify as a great coach.
    The stat that was most impressive to me was he has never had a wrestler fail to qualify for NCAAs. In three years years he has brought 30 wrestlers.
    It is the Big 5, so the large majority qualify, but the reason is becasue there isn't a single weak team in the Big 5.

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