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Thread: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

  1. #1

    Default SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    Just so everyone is clear - the cost of maintaining this TWT web site is roughly $10/month. I'm not estimating here - this is a fact.

    Not per person - this is the entire site cost for everyone.

    I setup the original web site with Jacob and Shane a number of years ago as a team effort. I basically donated my time and effort - it was and still is a great web site... but it's now crazy slow and needs serious work.

    I feel privileged to have been able to work with these guys - and to interact with all of you on the forums for those very special few years.

    I'm getting a weird vibe that we now need to somehow 'chip in' and pay for the site. That doesn't jive with what Jacob and Shane and I put together. This site is ad-supported (matfish, etc.)

    What does it need? Just basic site maintenance and optimization - NOTHING you guys should have to pay for.

    I'm open to any and all feedback and suggestions. Until somethings get clarified, if I were you, I'd keep my cash in my pockets.
    Last edited by PO; 11-20-2013 at 09:15 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    Hello rstrong,

    Just so everyone is clear - the cost of maintaining this TWT web site is roughly $10/month. I'm not estimating here - this is a fact.
    Would love to know how you know this. Because of what it was in 2009 so you just extrapolate that to now? As far as I know, this is the first time I've seen your name since 2011 when Jacob passed and we took over the reigns of managing this site. So I don't know how you would be privy to this stuff.

    What does it need? Just basic site maintenance and optimization
    We actually just moved it to a HostGator reseller account, which was like $30 a month. And in turn this site crashed, couldn't be ran, and was down for a week. Took up too much bandwidth and HostGator said it wouldn't be able to run on the reseller account just by itself on there. If you don't believe me, you can ask the people in the fantasy leagues how it went when trying to host this on a cheap server and it screwed things up for a week. That's the message they got for a week trying to get to this site.

    When Jacob reached out to Shane to take this to the next level, the site began to grow and Jacob was paying $300+ to host this site and a few others on a dedicated server at HostGator. I know this for a fact because I worked with him on several other projects and met with him personally several times a month when he lived in Minnesota, as well as the first contact for Kristen when he passed away to help manage it. And if you remember, even back in 2011 when this site was getting 15,000+ visitors a day, it was taking the Dedicated Server at HostGator down and needed to be reset in cPanel multiple times a day.

    Currently it is on a VPS and it is still crazy slow at times, like you admit. Kristen pays $110 for the VPS', granted a few other big sites are on there too. It has been up for most of the time since we switched back to this VPS from the HostGator reseller, though was down for a bit yesterday I believe.

    So basically, not sure where you are getting your information. Did you handle the server or other technical issues while Jacob was around? You were in the HostGator back-end analyzing the bandwidth/memory usage? Pretty sure that's not the case, because Jacob handled it all and he paid for it all out of his own pocket.

    "I'm getting a weird vibe that we now need to somehow 'chip in' and pay for the site."

    Never said anyone had to. Only that if people wanted this site to improve, getting better hosting, and continue to grow, that Kristen wouldn't be able to afford it and people would need to chip in. I've been footing the $110+ bill the last few months for the existing hosting for her sites, because like I said I've known them personally for years and I'm trying to help out like I can. And hell, I'm not even a super active wrestling poster here. Plus I do all the admin tasks and deal with the host when it goes down, fix the site when it gets hacked, add new members, etc.

    The point is, no one here is trying to make anything off the donations that come in. They will be going straight to Kristen for the upgrade in hosting. We've actually only had two people donate so far anyway, so we might be stuck with this existing hosting for a while longer.

    That doesn't jive with what Jacob and Shane and I put together. This site is ad-supported (matfish, etc.)
    Again, all due respect since I don't know you, but when were you involved? When it was on the free boards or just starting up on vBulletin? Both of those times it probably never required much money anyway. Jacob never asked for money because the dude was making well over six figures online so what was $300+ a month to him? It was water under the bridge and he loved wrestling anyway, not to mention the site was making him some $ too back then (which like I said in the other thread, this site currently makes maybe $1 a day off the Adsense ads you see and Matfish traffic has dropped as well).

    Oh, and I took out your "meet me at XXXX forum when this site is down" comment, since we don't need you pimping some competitor's forum especially after you basically just threw us under the bus and made it sound like we're swindling people. And the site hasn't been down for an extended period of time since the cheap hosting switch that failed at the end of October.
    Last edited by PO; 11-20-2013 at 09:40 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    I believe everything you are saying phillipines

    I do question why we are handling things this way though. If the site is costing $100+ a month to host and not making much of that back in advertising, why don't we just switch to a cheap forum package that WOULD cost $10 a month? That would fix all of the performance issues as well
    Gold is an idiot.

  4. #4

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    If the site is costing $100+ a month to host and not making much of that back in advertising, why don't we just switch to a cheap forum package that WOULD cost $10 a month?
    That would require starting the site from scratch pretty much, which could happen but has some downsides to it. It limits the upside and the likelihood that more people post here or even join to allow the site to grow back. It would basically be doing what the fantasy league guys did with that free forum. It works and stays up, just has limited upside and I doubt many new people are ever going to find it in the search engines like an established site like this. Same thing would happen if we started anew here. This site has: Threads270,265Posts522,343Members27,324 The database file is like 10+ gigabytes or something absurd like that. So, the site is pretty damn big and it's never going to be that cheap to host the site and still have it be a big player for online wrestling talk. All those old posts are a resource for growing the site as well since many people find these pages searching old tournaments, and TheWrestlingTalk shows up in the search results because this forum is optimized well and has like thousands of high quality links going into the site to allow it to rank well.

    It would also take a week or more to transfer all that to a new forum software and have it set up properly. Like I said, we do what we can with the site but we have full-time work obligations and we can't afford to be spending that amount of time on it. Furthermore, the domain is owned by Kristen - ultimately she calls the shots, regardless of providing feedback for her and also relaying everyone else's feelings as well.

    Basically the short term options are, Kristen and I continue to handle hosting costs and it stays where it is, or with the help of donations she's able to then upgrade the server and it has a chance to be fast again, do better in the search engines and continue to grow like it had (and in turn advertising would likely start to do better as well). At least it's been up for the last three weeks. It's kind of the chicken and the egg story - if you want to be a player on any site, particularly a forum, it's going to cost money. If you start new it'll be cheap but probably won't amount to much.

  5. #5

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    I don't know you personally, nor do you know me. So let's agree to keep the hostility to a minimum.

    My interest here is only in making sure everyone has the basic technical info correct before they start donating money.

    I'm certainly not calling you a swindler, nor do I have a problem with your or anyone else making money while providing a service to the wrestling community. Jacob was making a profit in the 1st year - I've never heard a single person complain about this site making money. I would very much like this site to continue to succeed.

    For $10/month you can get a hosting account that will handle all of the bandwidth, database, and drive space that you need for TWT.

    It would NOT have to be started from scratch - and transferring the data is relatively easy. Just back up the site (as you probably already do regularly), and then restore it to the new site location. You've recently switched hosting accounts... so you've done this exact thing recently.

    Look - it's not that complicated for a techie. Most everyone reading this post knows a computer geek - and they don't have to trust me... just ask that computer geek friend.

  6. #6

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    I don't know you personally, nor do you know me. So let's agree to keep the hostility to a minimum.
    For sure. No offense taken, just responding to your claims with the truth of what we're dealing with. We all want the same thing anyway, which is for this site to not only be online but to be in the best spot possible for it to succeed and provide an ideal user experience.

    My interest here is only in making sure everyone has the basic technical info correct before they start donating money.
    One thing, if you read the save TWT thread, numerous members come out and say they are willing to chip in whatever necessary to improve the hosting quality of the site (and that is before we ever went forth with a plan to acquire donations for Kristen to upgrade the hosting plan).

    I'm certainly not calling you a swindler, nor do I have a problem with your or anyone else making money while providing a service to the wrestling community. Jacob was making a profit in the 1st year - I've never heard a single person complain about this site making money. I would very much like this site to continue to succeed.
    As I implied earlier; we don't make a dime on this site. All the advertising (which is not much right now) goes to Kristen, his widow. And she'll get all the donations and put them 100% into the upgraded hosting package.

    For $10/month you can get a hosting account that will handle all of the bandwidth, database, and drive space that you need for TWT.

    It would NOT have to be started from scratch - and transferring the data is relatively easy. Just back up the site (as you probably already do regularly), and then restore it to the new site location. You've recently switched hosting accounts... so you've done this exact thing recently.

    Look - it's not that complicated for a techie.
    That's where we have to agree to disagree, I guess. As I detailed earlier, this site simply is not going to be able to be run on a $10 a month host. We basically tried it with HostGator's Reseller accounts and it lasted a matter of days before it maxed out of processes. And that was before the season really started - it will continue to draw more traffic to the tune of at least a few thousand visitors a day by the end of 2013/early 2014. As it is now, TWT is basically on it's own VPS with a few smaller sites and it's going to need a Dedicated Server at HostGator to run like it should. It is a 100% fact that from 2010-2012, this was on a $300+ dedicated server at HostGator and was one of the top 2 resource-using cogs on that server. That was the time it was biggest and ran the best. We actually thought we could cut costs on the hosting, and that's what got us on the VPS we are using. It runs, but it's slow because a VPS is on a shared machine - again, needs it's own dedicated host to run as it should.

    We've been self-employed internet marketers/web developers for nine years and have managed hosting for like a hundred different websites, with varying software/content management systems (including being the sole points of contact for technical issues on these sites since Jacob passed in August 2011). So we're not dudes jumping in here without a clue as to what's going on...

  7. #7

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    Without going into a lot of detail - yes, the TWT site would run on a $10/month host. Again - this isn't something anyone here needs to trust me on, talk to your smartest computer geek friend for confirmation. This is a very low bandwidth site, with very little traffic/activity. In fact - I'd rather nobody trusts me and asks for confirmation.

    I don't disagree with Filipines that they are internet marketers/web developers and are here to make a profit. I think it's great to have them make a profit. each and everyone of us makes a profit from doing something. I also don't doubt their expertise.

    Again, my only interest here is making sure the potential doners have a handle on what they think the might be donating to.

    Reseller accounts are setup to make the actual costs invisible to those being sold to. In other words, just like a Ford dealership - you don't know how much the dealership pays Ford for the car... because they don't want you to know. Resellers are taking a markup - and unless you are a reseller, you don't know what that amount is.

    The reseller's typically combine a lot of web sites together to SHARE the resources of a single account. So - in this case - even though TWT takes very little resources, the other accounts take much more, and the combined effect is that TWT slows to a crawl. A crawl that is almost unbearable enough for some to stop posting here.

    I don't have a single dollar to make here - and my goal is for this site to continue to grow. It's the best one I participate in.

    Ask others without a vested interested, don't take either my word or Filipine's for it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    Phillipines, can you sticky the thread (or create a thread) showing where we can contribute? I'll donate this weekend, it will probably be the first of three donations I'll make over the next two months or so. I'd like to see if we can get some momentum here before I drop the entire amount.

    Also, what's your name? Kind of awkward calling you Phillipines. Or, we could call you Phil, similar to how some people call me Flop.
    Last edited by Flop The Nuts; 11-20-2013 at 11:27 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: SAVE TWT? -- It only costs $10/month!

    I'll start buying my kid's wrestling gear through the Matfish link on this site.

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