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Thread: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

  1. #28
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    How does Mega have a claim to be above McD? How does Mega have a claim to be above Waters? It seems like you just ignore head to head and rank on some other basis.
    I'm not sure how I would seed the B10 tourney, but to answer your question:

    Within the B10 (IIRC) Mega pinned Delgado, Delgado handled McD pretty well, McD needed overtime to get past Mega. We are in the situation where we can't just stick to head to head match ups. So one of those three (McD, Mega, Delgado) is going to be seeded lower than the guy he beat.

    McD now has losses to two wrestlers, Delgado and Waters.
    Mega only has one loss - in overtime to McD, and has pinned Delgado.

    Most of us would immediately put McD up there because of his career, but it is tough to say that 1st at NCAA's last year is a whole lot better than 2nd. And I think previous years are not meant to count much.

    I think it is a much tougher decision than most of us thought it would be at the beginning of the season.

  2. #29

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    At this point Waters is clearly #1 nationally. For the B1G, you have 3 wrestlers each with one B1G loss (to each other). So, you can't do the B1G seeding based on H2H. McD has 2 losses (Delgado & Waters) Nico has 2 losses (RS Zanetta & McD) and Delgado has 3 losses (RS Clark, Garnett & Nico). Since B1G records can't decide it, I have to give #1 to McD (losses to 2 top 4 current wrestlers and defending NCAA champ), #2 to Nico (2 losses and runner-up NCAA champ) and #3 to Delgado (3 losses and returning #7).

  3. #30
    Super Moderator Zapp Brannigan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    I'm not sure how I would seed the B10 tourney, but to answer your question:

    Within the B10 (IIRC) Mega pinned Delgado, Delgado handled McD pretty well, McD needed overtime to get past Mega. We are in the situation where we can't just stick to head to head match ups. So one of those three (McD, Mega, Delgado) is going to be seeded lower than the guy he beat.

    McD now has losses to two wrestlers, Delgado and Waters.
    Mega only has one loss - in overtime to McD, and has pinned Delgado.

    Most of us would immediately put McD up there because of his career, but it is tough to say that 1st at NCAA's last year is a whole lot better than 2nd. And I think previous years are not meant to count much.

    I think it is a much tougher decision than most of us thought it would be at the beginning of the season.
    Megaludis has 2 losses. At Big 10's, McDonough probably deserves the 1 seed under what we have as total bodies of work so far. All 3 have beaten each other, so that doesn't really help. Delgado's losses (outside of the round robin with Mega and McD) are to true frosh Cory Clark and Jarrod Garnett. Megaludis' loss (again, outside of round robin) is to Anthony Zanetta. McDonough's loss is to current #1 Alan Waters. I think McD has the "best" loss.

    You could also make the case that Delgado having an extra loss eliminates him from the argument for #1 (in Big 10's) from jump street, so it just comes down to McD and Mega, and McD has the head to head win.
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  4. #31

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    As close at McD, Mega, and Delgado are.......the 125 big ten seeds are going to be very important. Whomever they give the #1 seed to will have a distinct advantage at the big tens. I don't know the order of importance of the criteria or what the specific criteria are, but I'd guess it is something like this:
    50% - Big ten record
    25% - vs other d1
    15% - vs redshirt & other non-d1
    10% - past accomplishments.
    If this were the case....Delgado looks to be clearly #3. But....McD & Mega would be about equal. I'd agree with Zapp on this one. Gotta give #1 to McD because of the head to head win over Mega.

  5. #32
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    I wasn't sure if the Mega's loss to Zanetta was official because Zanetta was wrestling unattached in his RS year. Probably dumb on my part. I'd agree that Waters is the overall #1, then probably I would go with Zapp's picks. If Mega got the nod over McD, I'd understand maybe using the argument that McD's losses were bigger and have been more recent, but I think Delgado is going to have to stay the third of those three.

  6. #33

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    BBL, those were my thoughts exactly. Really tough to seed this one especially since Waters only has one match against the top 4 guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    I'm not sure how I would seed the B10 tourney, but to answer your question:

    Within the B10 (IIRC) Mega pinned Delgado, Delgado handled McD pretty well, McD needed overtime to get past Mega. We are in the situation where we can't just stick to head to head match ups. So one of those three (McD, Mega, Delgado) is going to be seeded lower than the guy he beat.

    McD now has losses to two wrestlers, Delgado and Waters.
    Mega only has one loss - in overtime to McD, and has pinned Delgado.

    Most of us would immediately put McD up there because of his career, but it is tough to say that 1st at NCAA's last year is a whole lot better than 2nd. And I think previous years are not meant to count much.

    I think it is a much tougher decision than most of us thought it would be at the beginning of the season.

  7. #34

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    I also agree with this analysis. The national situation will sort out during conference tournaments. Throw the names in a hat, 1-4 at nationals doesn't mean a whole lot with this weight class I don't think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    Megaludis has 2 losses. At Big 10's, McDonough probably deserves the 1 seed under what we have as total bodies of work so far. All 3 have beaten each other, so that doesn't really help. Delgado's losses (outside of the round robin with Mega and McD) are to true frosh Cory Clark and Jarrod Garnett. Megaludis' loss (again, outside of round robin) is to Anthony Zanetta. McDonough's loss is to current #1 Alan Waters. I think McD has the "best" loss.

    You could also make the case that Delgado having an extra loss eliminates him from the argument for #1 (in Big 10's) from jump street, so it just comes down to McD and Mega, and McD has the head to head win.

  8. #35

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought there was some argument against Waters being ranked #1 at the national level, I wasn't concerned with the Big Ten seeding.

  9. #36

    Default Re: Alan Waters new #1 at 125!

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood. I thought there was some argument against Waters being ranked #1 at the national level, I wasn't concerned with the Big Ten seeding.
    Exactly! Until I see otherwise, any conversation about 125 right now stops and starts with Waters.

    He's going to be tough to beat (maybe Delgado, but we'll see).
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