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Thread: Dake vs Taylor II

  1. #55

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Dake winning 4 titles is even more impressive in my mind because he will win titles if he beats Taylor at lower to middle weights. I have always been of the opinion that the lower to middle weights by far and way hold the better athletes than the upper weights. Sorry if people disagree, but I will never believe anything outside of that. Why is it that weights like 133, 141, 149, 157, and 165 seem to be the toughest weight classes year over year? Its quite simple to me, its because they have the best athletes in those weight classes.

    If you are a great athlete and are great at both football and wrestling, and have scholarship offers in both sports, the choice is pretty easy which route you go. Weights like 184, 197, and HWT may or may not ever hold the best athletes available year over year. BTW.......this is in no way a jab at the Penn State Head Coach. It is just my opinion on why I think that Dakes accomplishment is so incredible! Im also not saying Dake is better than he is either, but it is comparable in my mind.

  2. #56

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by dback_5 View Post
    Dake winning 4 titles is even more impressive in my mind because he will win titles if he beats Taylor at lower to middle weights. I have always been of the opinion that the lower to middle weights by far and way hold the better athletes than the upper weights. Sorry if people disagree, but I will never believe anything outside of that. Why is it that weights like 133, 141, 149, 157, and 165 seem to be the toughest weight classes year over year? Its quite simple to me, its because they have the best athletes in those weight classes.

    If you are a great athlete and are great at both football and wrestling, and have scholarship offers in both sports, the choice is pretty easy which route you go. Weights like 184, 197, and HWT may or may not ever hold the best athletes available year over year. BTW.......this is in no way a jab at the Penn State Head Coach. It is just my opinion on why I think that Dakes accomplishment is so incredible! Im also not saying Dake is better than he is either, but it is comparable in my mind.
    Maybe in the U.S. but not on the world level. Look at 96kg (211), way more stacked than any other weight.

  3. #57
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    In general, I agree that the middle weights have a higher percentage of good athletes. That's one of the reasons why I really enjoy seeing good, mobile athletes pop up in 197 and HWT.

    Part of it, as you say, is because some are pulled away (in the US) by football. But a big part of it is because that is where we have the most boys competing. This is also reflected in the number of forfeits at either end of the weight classes than in the middle weights. But more participants = greater chance for more really good athletes.

  4. #58

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
    Come on now, lets get serious. THere's a reason the redshirt exists. Cael Sanderson was undefeated.

    I obviously know he was technically undefeated but I think it is laughable to say he didn't lose in College. The truth is he did lose in College but for some stupid reason they don't count matches in redshirt. Why don't they just wrestle without keeping score in these open matches? They could just wrestle the 7 min without keeping score the way I see it. Afterall isn't this suppose to be practice for the "real" wrestling?

    I bet Cory Clark tells people he beat Jesse Delgado while in College. By some of your logic Cory can't claim he beat the #3 kid in the nation in 2012 at the UNI Open because it didn't really count.

  5. #59

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    I think pre-season should count in the NFL too. The 1972 Dolphins weren't actually undefeated because they had their uniforms on in the pre-season and were trying to win.

  6. #60

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Remember well all the talk and chest pounding of "let Cael go up a weight and the BigBoys will pound his azz".
    Well, he went up and the big boys were beaten just as much as the guys at 184.
    Cael won and won going away most of the time even when he went up a weight.
    His only close match was the stall fest against the Minnhaha wrestler early in his varsity career.

  7. #61

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by Flop The Nuts View Post
    I think pre-season should count in the NFL too. The 1972 Dolphins weren't actually undefeated because they had their uniforms on in the pre-season and were trying to win.
    Funny..
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  8. #62
    World Champ ODH's Avatar
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    Post Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    Quote Originally Posted by matdogg View Post
    Maybe in the U.S. but not on the world level. Look at 96kg (211), way more stacked than any other weight.
    Well, the US did have a Gold medalist at 211 and JD Bergman behind him (Didnt Bergman just outplace Varner at the NYAC open?).
    Also Heavy has been where the US has had the most depth for the last 10+ years (Neal, McCoy, Thompson, Mocco, Sigman, Rowlands, Dlagnev and add Rulon,Ghaffari, and Byers in Greco)
    Last edited by ODH; 12-26-2012 at 10:42 PM.

  9. #63

    Default Re: Dake vs Taylor II

    I don't think Varner had wrestled since the Olympics, but he has been beaten by Bergman several times. Bergman was very effective at forcing upper body ties and making Varner uncomfortable. I think Varner would beat him now, but who knows?

    Internationally, I think the weights are spread out enough now that everything from 60-96 could be considered a "middle weight" and very deep. Around the 2004 Olympics I remember 60 kg being the weight to watch.

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