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Thread: Sanderson does not like National Duals

  1. #10
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Herkey, thank for posting that. It sheds light on what was a really murky process for the wrestling fan. Apparently, it was murky for the coaches involved as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by goferphan View Post
    If I were Sanderson I wouldn't like National Duals either to determine the National Team Championship. It doesn't benefit his current team as much as the current model.
    I don't think that is his primary motivation. Historically, PSU has been better at the duals than in the individual tournaments. Not Brands motivating factor either, I expect.

  2. #11

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    That seems to be the prevailing sentiment for gopher fans. If Sanderson and Brands don't like it, it must be because they don't think they have good dual teams. I don't think either coach would be backing down no matter what format determines the championships. I'm thinking there are other considerations for their reservations. Like, everything that Brinzer pointed out in his letter.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  3. #12

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Great letter from Brinzer, well written and well explained. Thanks for sharing Herkey.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Herkey--Thanks so much for posting Brinzer's letter. It was very well written and it was good to read it. This one section bears repeating in my mind:

    "At the convention next year, there could be proper debate on a proposal which actually exists, and is in the hands of those concerned.

    And finally, a vote held next year, under procedures understood to everyone, would carry with it the kind of mandate which the NWCA desires. Instead of seeming to push a fractured and unwilling community to support what has been the NWCA's own tournament, the NWCA would retain the moral authority required for leadership... no matter what the outcome of the vote."




    We all have our opinions on this but none of us really know how this will work out if the National Duals becomes the NCAA team championship. Many of us have our doubts, but it COULD be better. As Brinzer (and many others) brings out, the biggest problem is the way this has been handled. It has the potential to really fracture the wrestling community when we certainly DON'T need that. Take a year and process this the right way!

  5. #14

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBloodLion View Post
    Herkey, thank for posting that. It sheds light on what was a really murky process for the wrestling fan. Apparently, it was murky for the coaches involved as well.



    I don't think that is his primary motivation. Historically, PSU has been better at the duals than in the individual tournaments. Not Brands motivating factor either, I expect.
    I have to admit that I find it interesting and a bit humorous that both Brands and Sanderson are arguing on the same side of something. This brings them together! But I wholeheartedly agree that Sanderson is not evaluating this by how PSU would do in one kind of a tournament or another. He (and his coaching staff) are genuinely concerned with what they think is good for the sport. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily right (although they do make some good points!--as does Brands). But I think it's off-base to accuse them of seeking a competitive advantage in the national tournament because of the positions they've taken. If you've read his arguments he has some legitimate points to make (and some others are making them as well).

  6. #15

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    I don't like this proposal one bit. I love the national tournament and the team race is my favorite part of the whole thing. However, I am not against growing our sport and if that means drastic changes then I am for it...under the right circumstances. I would never support anything that is being pushed through a vote, seemingly in some double secret fashion. If this process were completely transparent and people had ample time to make educated decisions and the vote was still the same I would support it. But that is not how this whole thing has played out. Moyer and Koll have taken the wrong turn at just about every intersection. They've made a mockery of their own proposal because of they way they are presenting it.

    This issue should be tabled and talked about. There should be time for other proposals to be drafted and brought to the table. After all the proposals are distributed and debated AND THOUGHT ABOUT FOR A LENGTH OF TIME, they should be voted on at next years convention. I will support whatever is decided at that time. Right now, if this goes through in it's current format I may never go to any national tournament ever again.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  7. #16

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    That seems to be the prevailing sentiment for gopher fans. If Sanderson and Brands don't like it, it must be because they don't think they have good dual teams.
    Actually most Gopher fans support the proposal because they recognize Dan Gable's leadership; "I am for moving forward whether it works or not, especially if there is little risk that it can set us backward. Going from there, I am not a status quo guy. If this works, we will have improved college wrestling 100% by going from one great event to two. There isn't much in life we can improve by 100%."
    "He beat nobodies..Thorn at 133 won't be great, R12 or worse imo...
    I just don't see it...David Thorn is not elite. I don't think he'll place"

  8. #17

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    This issue should be tabled and talked about. There should be time for other proposals to be drafted and brought to the table. After all the proposals are distributed and debated AND THOUGHT ABOUT FOR A LENGTH OF TIME, they should be voted on at next years convention. .
    From Kolls email, it sounds like they planned to table the proposal for a year but were informed by ESPN that if they tabled it ESPN was pulling out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkey#1 View Post
    Right now, if this goes through in it's current format I may never go to any national tournament ever again.
    Do you realize that they're still going to keep and announce team scores at the individual tournament? and that they're still giving a team trophy to which ever team scores the most points?
    There's no such thing as a pretty good aligator wrestler.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Sanderson does not like National Duals

    Quote Originally Posted by FloggingSully View Post
    Do you realize that they're still going to keep and announce team scores at the individual tournament? and that they're still giving a team trophy to which ever team scores the most points?
    Yes, I realize this, but who the heck will care. It doesn't mean jack squat. It will be like winning the Midlands. It's fine and everything but means nothing. As a Hawk fan the only thing that matters is national titles. I am in favor of a dual national championship but not at the expense of what we currently have.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

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