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Thread: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

  1. #19

    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    The dude from wrestlingstats.com just emailed me back. I have the whole list (that he could come up with). I am not good with computers soooo.... I have the email and I have it downloaded on my computer. I just don't know how to put it on this site. Microsoft excel is how he sent it. KR, if you pm me your email I can forward it and you can post it for everyone. That would probably be easier than trying to tell me how.

    Or...if anyone wants me to email it, pm me. I know how to forward a message, but I don't know much more than that.

  2. #20

    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    I am not good with computers soooo.... I have the email and I have it downloaded on my computer. I just don't know how to put it on this site.. That would probably be easier than trying to tell me how.

    Or...if anyone wants me to email it, pm me. I know how to forward a message, but I don't know much more than that.
    Ding dang interwebs and these dern computers i tells ya..
    To avoid criticism say nothing, do nothing, be nothing.

  3. #21

    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    Quote Originally Posted by vaisforlovers View Post
    Ding dang interwebs and these dern computers i tells ya..
    lol. I just forwarded the list to kr. If he knows how to do it, great. Meanwhile, me and Ellie Mae are gonna take a swim in our cement pond.

  4. #22
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    10-four Jethro...

  5. #23
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    Check this out:

    What year did the NCAA allow freshmen to play?

    The Digital Collegian - Published independently by students at Penn State
    MAGAZINE
    [ Friday, April 24, 1992 ]

    Freshman eligibility
    Age-old dilemma still debated

    By FRANKLIN BERKEY
    Collegian Magazine Writer

    November 6, 1869, was a cold, autumn afternoon in New Brunswick, N.J. Braving the elements, nearly 100 fans gathered on a wooden fence surrounding a small, partially lined football field.

    Donning hats, coats, vests and suspenders employed as belts, 50 college football players from Rutgers University and Princeton University took to the field shortly after 3 p.m.

    Wearing red scarfs to distinguish themselves from their counterparts, the Scarlet Knights toppled the Tigers, 6-4. While the modern football fan would have barely recognized it as a football game, it was still intercollegiate football's inaugural game.

    Out of the 25 players on the Rutgers squad, 10 of them were freshman. Out of those 10 freshmen, three of them were failing algebra. While their eligibility was not a concern to the 100 spectators, the case demonstrates the extensive history of the freshman debate. From the first game to today's ongoing Proposition 48 controversy, freshman eligibility has been a hot topic for debate.

    Under current legislation, freshmen with 700 or higher on the SAT with a 2.0 grade-point average in 11 academic core courses in high school are eligible for varsity sports for four years beginning their freshman season. Unknown to many sports enthusiasts, however, freshmen athletes have not always been eligible. Additionally, with the recent debate over the effectiveness of Proposition 48, many coaches, administrators and experts are pushing for freshmen ineligibility.

    The debate began about 20 years after the Rutgers--Princeton contest when Charles Eliot, president of Harvard University, proposed the first reforms to eliminate freshman eligibility. In 1903, Harvard became the first "big-time" school to install freshman ineligibility.

    Three years later, the Big Ten and the Ohio Valley Conference prohibited freshman participation. In the same year, Harvard, Yale and Princeton agreed to freshman ineligibility in baseball, football, crew and track and field. In the next few years, seven additional conferences enacted similar legislation.

    However, with the outbreak of World War I in 1917, the regulations regarding freshman participation changed. Due to declining college enrollment and increased enlistment in the army, several colleges began to allow freshmen to participate.

    In 1943, the NCAA followed suit, repealing the freshman prohibition on account of World War II. When American involvement in the Korean War escalated in the early 1950s, most major conferences repealed the measure once again.

    After several universities enacted regulations to limit freshman eligibility and set academic standards for athletes, the NCAA finally adopted legislation to allow freshman to participate in all sports except football and basketball in 1968.

    In 1972, with the announcement of freshman eligibility in football and basketball, the debate came full circle. In 1983, an NCAA committee recommended making all freshmen ineligible. The proposition, however, was rejected. In that same year, the NCAA enacted Proposition 48, which would take effect in 1986.

    In 1987, Ronald A. Smith, professor of exercise and sport science, and Jay W. Helman of Penn State University compiled a history of the freshman eligibility for the NCAA. In the 40-page document, Smith and Helman trace the history of the rule from the late 1800s to the present day Proposition 48 debate.

    In the report, the authors emphasize the financial hardships of the late 1960s and early 1970s as the primary reason for the death of the freshman rule.

    "Clearly, the reason freshman were granted varsity eligibility was the economic hardship faced by many schools in fielding freshman athletic programs," Smith and Helman wrote.

    In addition, the researchers concluded that Proposition 48 was a compromise of the "century long debate of the freshman rule."

    "In a sense, Proposition 48 embodied a compromise of the century long debate over the freshman rule. It recognized that, for various reasons, a majority of NCAA schools felt that they must allow freshman to compete immediately in order to sustain competitive programs," the duo wrote. "Yet it also recognized, at least in theory, that the demands of intercollegiate athletics create a burden on the education pursuits of the student athlete."

    Despite its rejection in 1986, freshman ineligibility still has its share of advocates, both locally and nationally.

    Penn State President Joab Thomas, who has always been in favor of stricter eligibilty rules, said that in general he would support the freshman rule, but with some reservations.

    "'For the most part," Thomas said, "I think freshman would be better if they were not in the position where they were forced to compete. My reservation is, with the red-shirt rules, the student-athlete would be forced to stay for five years. We ought to give them a chance to compete and graduate in four years."

    Penn State Assistant Athletic Director L. Budd Thalman also supports the idea, pointing out that a student's freshman year is a transitional year.

    "I would definitely be in favor of giving those young people a transitional year," Thalman said. "The proponents feel that the freshman year is a year of becoming conditioned to college life, both academically and socially."

    Assistant Athletic Director Frank Rocco agrees, but points out one possible drawback.

    "It (freshmen ineligibility) would give the freshman athlete a chance to settle in and get their feet wet academically," Rocco said. "On the other side of the coin, there is the numbers aspect of it. If freshman were ineligible, you would probably have three or four less people. I bet most of the coaches and academic advisor would be in favor of it because of its positive aspects."

    Some of Penn State's top football players were affected by the freshman rule. Running back Franco Harris, halfback John Cappelletti, and linebacker Jack Ham all had just three years of eligibility under the freshman rule at the time.

    "I think it helped me," said former Penn State All-American linebacker Jack Ham. "It gave me a chance to get acclimated to college life and not have to worry about if my game was going to be on national television or not."

    Ham received the last scholarship of the 1966 recruiting season. After sitting out the 1967 season, Ham took the field in the 1968 season. In his third and final year of eligibility, Ham recorded four interceptions and 91 tackles. After graduation, Ham went on to an 11-year professional career with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    "I think it was a real plus," Ham said. "I am all for it."

    Donald Ferrell, an advisor in the Penn State Academic Support Center, also favors freshman ineligibility.

    "I believe all freshman athletes should not play in their sport in their freshman year," Ferrell said. "They need one year to get ready. I think the most time is taken up with practice, so they should not play or practice. I think it is worth a try.

  6. #24
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    RED = 1970-1998 weights(29 years)
    BOLD = 1999-current weights
    (13 years)
    Weight
    number of AA %
    118 21 8.24%
    125
    19 7.45%
    126 19 7.45%
    134 17 6.67%
    150 16 6.27%
    158 13 5.10%
    167 12 4.71%
    177 12 4.71%

    184
    12 4.71%
    142 11 4.31%
    157
    10 3.92%
    190 10 3.92%
    133
    9 3.53%
    149 9 3.53%
    165
    9 3.53%
    174
    9 3.53%
    UNL 9 3.53%
    285
    7 2.75%
    141
    6 2.35%
    197
    6 2.35%
    275 6 2.35%
    136 4 1.57%
    145 2 0.78%
    175 2 0.78%
    121 1 0.39%
    128 1 0.39%
    147 1 0.39%
    152 1 0.39%
    155 1 0.39%
    255 100.00% totals
    Last edited by kr1963; 05-26-2011 at 03:51 AM.

  7. #25
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    # of weights Weight Group number of AA %
    5 118-128 61 23.92%
    6 150-158 41 16.08%
    3 133-136 30 11.76%
    5 141-149 29 11.37%
    3 174-177 23 9.02%
    3 275-UNL 22 8.63%
    2 165-167 21 8.24%
    2 190-197 16 6.27%
    1 184 12 4.71%
    30 255 100.00% totals
    Last edited by kr1963; 05-26-2011 at 03:24 AM.

  8. #26
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    Old weightsNew weights

    Weight
    number of AA % weight has AA Years weight existed weighted %

    125 19 7.45% 13 1.462
    184 12 4.71% 13 0.923
    157 10 3.92% 13 0.769
    118 21 8.24% 29 0.724
    133 9 3.53% 13 0.692
    149 9 3.53% 13 0.692
    165 9 3.53% 13 0.692
    174 9 3.53% 13 0.692
    126 19 7.45% 29 0.655
    134
    17 6.67% 29 0.586
    150
    16 6.27% 29 0.552
    285 7 2.75% 13 0.538
    UNL 9 3.53% 17 0.529
    275
    6 2.35% 12 0.500
    141 6 2.35% 13 0.462
    197 6 2.35% 13 0.462
    158 13 5.10% 29 0.448
    167
    12 4.71% 29 0.414
    177
    12 4.71% 29 0.414
    142
    11 4.31% 29 0.379
    190
    10 3.92% 29 0.345
    Last edited by kr1963; 05-26-2011 at 04:28 AM.

  9. #27
    Olympic Champ kr1963's Avatar
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    Default Re: Likelihood of a Freshman AA

    Weight number of AA % W%
    118-125 40 16.53% 2.186
    126-133 28 11.57% 1.347
    177-184 24 9.92% 1.337
    150-157 26 10.74% 1.321
    158-165 22 9.09% 1.141
    167-174 21 8.68% 1.106
    142-149 20 8.26% 1.072
    275-285 22 9.09% 1.056
    134-141 23 9.50% 1.048
    190-197 16 6.61% 0.806

    The W% is a weighted percentage.
    It is basically the # of AAs divided by the # of years that weight existed. You can see that in the above posts. In this one I added them together. The 1st 2 weight groups would just be predictable that there were probably a higher percentage of Freshman at those weights to begin with.

    What is interesting is the 3rd group, 177-184.

    Also the 2 in pink are lower weight groups & have a lower percentage of Freshman. The data actually shows me what I thought, that the 190-197 group is the toughest group to AA for Freshman.
    Last edited by kr1963; 05-26-2011 at 05:10 AM.

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