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Thread: Everything Penn State Wrestling

  1. #1279
    NCAA Champ BlueBloodLion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post

    If that had happened with an assistant coach on a wrestling team, the team would no longer exist. I say take the stand, forget that its penn state and paterno.
    I agree that is a strong possibility, but I believe the school itself would end the program, not an outside organization.

  2. #1280
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Does anyone know what ever became of the guy who first started investigating this and was found dead? I haven't heard any follow up on that, as in foul play or something. It seemed quite curious at the time, but seems to be overlooked now.
    I think you are referring to Ray Gricar. He was the lead prosecutor in the late 90s and early 2000s. He is the one who closed the 1998 investigation. He disappeared in 2005 and has never been found. He was officially declared dead about a year ago, but it was not because of any new evidence. I think it was more procedural to allow the family and his office to process his estate, etc.

  3. #1281
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Ugly.....
    "IMO if you knew someone was molesting kids and you did nothing to stop it, then you were guilty of molesting those kids as well."

    Did the read the report? Aside from its many faults there is a chronology to the events. If you read the information in that report I think you'll agree Paterno did not "know" Sandusky was "molesting kids". So many in the media just read the Freeh news release and not the report. The Freeh news release makes accusations for which there is zero evidence in the report. Freeh took liberties re-phrasing certain quotes in his news release and press conference that were quite different than as written in the documented evidence in order to embellish his conclusions.

    1998 - Sandusky is investigated by criminal and welfare authorities and there was no basis for prosecution found.

    Let's assume Paterno, Spanier, Schultzz and Curley were aware of the investigation and it's outcome......no crime, but Sandusky demonstrated bad judgement. Dick Anderson another coach on staff testified at the Grand Jury he saw Sandusky in the showers with other boys, but did not think anything of it and never reported it to Paterno or anyone else for that matter.

    So Curley, Paterno, Spanier and Schultz walk away from that investigation thinking it's basically a non-event.

    The 2000 incident involving custodians never gets reported to anyone.

    2001 incident is encountered by McQueary. McQueary says hears one thing but when he peeks into the showers he reports he sees something different. Paterno is not an eye witness just a hearsay witness. Presuming he knew of the 1998 investigation which was deemed not criminal, he reports the McQueary encounter to his superiors. They meet with McQueary. Keep in mind Sandusky is no longer involved in football operations, but is under the purview of the provost as a retired assistant professor emeritus.

    A - All of the evidence by association and innuendo raised in the Freeh report indicates no one, not Paterno, not Spanier, not Curley "knew" Sandusky was a child molester.

    B-We do not know what Paterno did to stop it. We do know that is his interview with teh Washingont Post he stated "I wish I had done more." MORE, which suggestes he did do something, but we do not know what other than reporting the event to Curley and Schultz. The State Prosecutor never asked him in the Grand Jury investigation. The Washington Post never followed and asked "what do you mean by more" Freeh never interviewed Paterno even though Paterno had agreed to the request. Only Paterno and probably Curley know exactly what Paterno did and did not do what he could possibly meant by the using the term "more".

    We do know he did not report it to child welfare. He was not a witness to the act. He reported it up the chain of command which was PSU's weak policy procedure on minors at the time per the Freeh report. We do know Paterno did not report it directly to university police, but since he was not a witness, again it was not his responsibility - see Freeh report. He could have told McQueary to report to the PD, he did not and he can be criticized for that.
    C - Freeh points out that under the Jean Clery Act, a coach is obligated to report an incident of sexual assault. Paterno was not a witness, is it his authority to determine what a sexual assault is. I mean, this was not a robbery or burglary; to a large extent is is a subjective assumption. Given the 1998 investigation which was not criminal, I surmise Paterno may have mis-assumed this was a near identical event.
    Paterno admited he didn't know how to handle such sexual situations and wished their had been more training on campus. The Freeh report came to the same conclusions. While the Clery Act requires education on reporting for coaches, PSU never offered, nor required that training. He followed the existing PSU policy on incidents involving minors...see Freeh report.

    D-While occurring on athletic department property, the event was not related to football operations. Paterno had been chastised in the past by the administration for butting his opinion into non-football issues. Was he dissuaded from furthering his involvement for fear of more non-football criticism? Given the nature of the allegations, that reasoning is weak, but clearly a possible thought process.
    Life's not the breaths you take, the breathing in and out that gets you through the day ain't what it's all about. It's the moments that take your breath away.

  4. #1282

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    The Penn St/Paterno appologists are looking very foolish. It's time to be honest with yourselves. I wanted to believe that Santa Claus was real even after I saw my Dad putting presents under the tree but after about two minutes of deep thought, common sense prevailed.
    THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON ON EARTH IS THE HUMAN SOUL ON FIRE

    "I like to relax with a chainsaw." Tom Brands 12/4/09

  5. #1283
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    When I read it Ryou, I believe that he did know and that they tried to cover it up as best they could. I believe he knew in 1998 that something was wrong and did nothing to stop it and he certainly knew n 2001 and did nothing to stop it. Telling the same administration officials that helped him sweep the 1998 incident under the rug does not count as telling the authorities. He should have gone directly to the police, he should have after 98 barred Sandusky from the campus. I dont see how anyone could come to another outcome.

  6. #1284

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    This is one of the best conversations about this subject that i've read. I love this board, you guys are great.

    I'm on Ryou's side on this concerning the NCAA's potential punishment. Spanier, Schults, Curley are gone. Sandusky is hopfully being anally raped with such frequency that shit no longer stays in his bowels, and paterno is in the ground. Sanctions on the university now is doing nothing but punishing innocent Students and atheletes. People want messages sent...I think other universities and especially Penn State have reviewed, modified, and have instructed their staff and professors on the policies. The NCAA should have each University submit their policies and methods of instruction for review to ensure there is consistancy.

    This whole situation has put me through a multitude of emotions and at the end of it all, I'm embarrassed and saddened. That's all I can say, really.

  7. #1285
    Olympic Champ RYou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by UGLY View Post
    When I read it Ryou, I believe that he did know and that they tried to cover it up as best they could. I believe he knew in 1998 that something was wrong and did nothing to stop it and he certainly knew n 2001 and did nothing to stop it. Telling the same administration officials that helped him sweep the 1998 incident under the rug does not count as telling the authorities. He should have gone directly to the police, he should have after 98 barred Sandusky from the campus. I dont see how anyone could come to another outcome.
    What you "believe" is your opinion. The lack of any evidence to date that absolves Paterno clearly is disheartening to all that support the man. You and a billion others condemn him by association despite the lack of any evidence of complicity on his part. Sure we all know that by not instructing McQueary to call the police was a fateful error. He did report the incident as guided by university policy at the time. In hindsight he wishes he did, but that error is in a whole different stratosphere as conspiring to cover up the incident. I need more before I condemn him of participating on that plane.

    So many links in the chain of events were broken, it's just incredible. Freeh found the 2001 incident was reported to the 2nd Mile, they opted to not report it either and Sandusky continued to work for them through 2009.

    All I am suggesting is that the evidence compiled by Freeh and others does not support the conclusion that Paterno participated in the conspiracy. At this point in time, only Curley fully knows Paterno's role in this scheme. With such egregious actions on the part of Spanier, Curley, and Schultz, I want to see something more concrete against Paterno before I add him to the pile of the other three. After 60 plus years of integrity, the man has earned that right. I could care less about the university administration including the BoT right now. They've earned everything dumped on them and more. My sole interest is in Paterno.

    8 months and Freeh couldn't find anything concrete on him. He couldn't even confirm the Curley / Paterno meeting meeting took place as he had for other Curley meetings from his appointment book.

    Curley had heaps of motivation to protect Sandusky and the athletic program as he was the one that gave Sandusky the keys to the kingdom and negotiated the retirement perks. It was Curley that continued to invite Sandusky to PSU events after the 2001 incident, even after he was called to testify at the grand jury and as late as the home game Saturday before Sandusky's arrest.
    Life's not the breaths you take, the breathing in and out that gets you through the day ain't what it's all about. It's the moments that take your breath away.

  8. #1286

    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn14 View Post
    Does anyone know what ever became of the guy who first started investigating this and was found dead? I haven't heard any follow up on that, as in foul play or something. It seemed quite curious at the time, but seems to be overlooked now.
    I'm in State College right now (an interesting time to be back in my home town!) and I assure you that it's not forgotten here! But no one I've talked with has any information/idea as to what happened to him. There could be theories galore but I'm not aware that there is any hard evidence supporting any of them. Still a big ?? as far as I can tell.

  9. #1287
    Super Moderator UGLY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everything Penn State Wrestling

    Here's the problem, nobody wants to make Paterno part of this me included. I would be most happy if he could go down in history as the beloved man he was thought to be. We see two different outcomes to the report you are in the vast minority which is fine but I can see why you could be. I think that when people read the report they expected Paterno and wanted Paterno to be free of all impropriety. The email record suggests strongly that Paterno was in the loop in 98 and we know he was in 01. Nobody is out to get him he brought this on himself by not living up to the standards he set not only for himself but the school as well. Now Patern's family had hired their l own people to investigate the incident and I hope they can restore paternos reputation but I doubt they can.

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